Steyr SW LP-10 (thoughts about Sear adj. or advanced tuning)

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:14 am

Hello, Everybody!

Here's some thoughts about trigger adj-ment... and advanced tuning.

On the page 41 of User Manual we can see: Sear adj. "NEVER turn this screw!" or smth. like this... no matter.

ok. if we're going to follow this warning then we will never get real smooth and blend trigger's work. We tried here to get smooth work many-many times turning only 4 screws (but not turning sear's screw) - it was impossible. Aftertravel couldn't help us too.

#If it's possible here - later, I'll add approx. diagram-scheme to this post#

As I can suppose - this warning is made for persons who could try to get very-very DRY trigger's work - very short, where all trigger's weight is "concentrated" like on the edge of a needle. In this case - really DRY work may be dangerous and it can have unpredictable behaviour.

In my case I wanted to get: not very short, blend pull stages, smooth work... and very blend interval: [second stage]--->[aftertravel], because of I don't want my finger feels difference during "work process": for better psychological & emotional stability.

It's absolutely your choice - what kind of pull you like.

Axel · Post by **Axel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:21 am

Interesting indeed!

How much did you turn the "forbidden" screw? Is it very sensitive?

Best regards,
Axel

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:35 pm

Very interesting. You have managed to convert the trigger to essentially a long roll single stage action. I used to have such a trigger on my Pardini SPE, but I have no idea of how the previous owner did it. Do you have a procedure that you can share with us?
Fred

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:30 pm

Hello, again!

Hm. I supposed that my post will be interested for you. Everyone of us wants to shoot better ;-)... As in that famous slogan: "as smooth as silk".

OK.

In any case it could be better to remember original screw position for extra-situation... but it's impossible... see the scheme.... it's very simple if we know something about mechanisms' basics. Everything we have to keep in mind: "DON'T turn forbidden screw CLOCKWISE".
In case of turning sear-screw clockwise - we'll shorten second stage... up to such situation then we'll never have linking between trigger lever & trigger sear.

Algorithm is simple (I've tuned my own this way, sheme is supplied):
1) Remember screw positions for extra-situations;
2) Turn screw "A" COUNTER-CLOCKWISE for quarter (for beginning);
3) Turn screw "B" COUNTER-CLOCKWISE up to the stop;
4) Tune others screws for desired trigger pull: close your eyes, stretch out your hand with pistol... feel, feel your senses... feel workflow process. Ideally, you have to forget about aftertravel's hole: "Aftertravel hole***? What is it?" :-)
Don't forget to make weight control of your tirgger.

*** - I suppose that it's unnecessary to explain what is "aftertravel hole" and which actions it calls from shooter... Yeah, yeah - some of separate shots in lower sector of target (in mix with wrist "error"). It's another story...

Go back to our trigger: in my case I did it, as I've wrote, without contrast. [First stage] --> [Second stage] --> [Aftertravel] = is almost (approx.) ONE action. Transitions are almost imperceptible.

Successful shooting,
Igor

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:44 pm

Also, I saw sometimes posts from Mr. Ernst Franz Huber or Mr. Karl Egger (I cant say exactly). It would be very kind from Them to show us Their opinion about sear screw.

I'll try to send Them this topic's link. May be They will write us.

It would be great to hear Their opinion.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:15 am

Can somebody please explain why some shooters are so keen to negate features which gun manufacturers have spent so much time and effort trying to perfect.

I refer of course to the 2 stage trigger.

Gun manufacturers listen to the world's top shooters when they are building new guns. That is why 2 stage triggers are so prevalent. If those top shooters thought that a rollover trigger was an advantage then more (some) top guns would have them.

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:40 am

David Levene wrote:Can somebody please explain...

Sir, I'm not trying to say that I'm cleverest man, I'm not trying to say that I'm best shooter of the world. I'm not trying to blame someone. I respect Steyr Team VERY much! It's true! My LP-10 is best what I've tested. I did many-many 10s with it.

BUT: Did You taste, Nestruew's trigger... or Wang's.. for example...? Are You sure that they don't use tricks? I'm not sure... I didn't taste. These guys are very strong shooters AND gunsmiths too: everything I can say.

Noch einmal: Do you think, is it absolutely normal, when your finger falls after second stage? I don't think so.

OK. No matter. We're different people. Different schools. Different coaches and training processes. :-)

If Sir from Steyr SW will say that it's stupid to turn forbidden screw - I'll immediately return it back, BUT then I'll have to use piece of a rubber... I'll try to place it "somewhere" in aftertravel interval.

But I know another opinion-statement:
"Right finger work must be: when its workflow process doesn't disturb sighting"...
If You have such situation: forget about screws. But chance for a distant shot from main group will be still alive (psychology reasons).

---
Sincerely

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:25 am

Ruig:

If you are so conceerned about force drop-off after sear release ("overtravel"), why don't you just get an electronic trigger with constant force curve over distance?

No sear, no pressure change, no "overtravel" in the classic sense . . .

Yes, I can see the effort to reduce the force curve dropoff at the moment of shot release- but shy persist in trying to do the impossible?

"Overtravel" and "Creep" are *design features* of mechanical trigger systems.

If you are going to shoot mechanical, you are going to have *some* (in match guns, smaller than non-match guns; and sometimes quite small- but always present) amounts of both.

Steve Swartz

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:32 pm

Steve,

We have situation with two participants: LP-10 and shooter. I think it's important to consider exactly such situation. Why should a shooter buy another equipment? We have everything we already have! (...in particular, I don't like electronics... but it's not important...)

To say truth, I've never confronted with "Creepeng" and "Friction" in my mech-al guns. May be... am I lucky? ;-)

Everything I want to try - I want to reduce, as you say, overtravel "hole".

---

Today I've tested such variant (who don't want to turn forbidden screw):

Do you see a roll of black leather behind trigger shoe? Hm... I liked my feelings... But I didn't tested it in shooting with pellets (our shooting club is closed up to 10 Jan... holidays...). May be I'll replace leather with piece of a rubber (bit I think - rubber is less stable). My senses are great - I feel like "trigger weight" curve is continuing to rise up after second stage.
But I'll test it in real shooting... later...

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:05 am

Hi my name is Chris....I turned the Screw.

...and it felt so GOOD!!!!!!!!!

I had to do it. It was just not right before. I mean for me it was not right.

As we all know most smart manufactures will build in some safety factor in everything they build. I think the sear engagment could fall into that area. Neraly every trigger on a new gun I have purchased had too much creep. I wonder if setting up a trigger with the minimal creep at the factory might end up having some problems down the road after the pistol leaves the factory. I could see some pistols arriving new and you pull the trigger and for some reason nothing happens. If the sear is set with a little extra creep then a pistol will never show up DOA. Just a theory.

I say it is ok to turn the screw to the spot that makes the user happy and keeps them shooting and shooting the best possable scores they can.

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:03 am

The screw is there for a reason...because it allows adjustment. Otherwise, the factory would've just blanked it off or made it non-adjustable. The factory doesn't trust the average shooter to adjust it themselves, so they say don't touch. And if you're the average joe who is content with what he/she has and you don't want to even try anything else, then don't touch the screw, sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

But for those that do know a little bit more about how their air pistol works (and those that want to learn) and who understand there's something more than magic at play between the pull of the trigger and the exit of a projectile down the barrel, what's the big deal?

The lack of interest in seeking out a better understanding of each shooter's chosen tool is baffling. Relying solely on what current top shooters are doing (if in fact, that is what they ARE doing) seems limiting. I'll be the first to admit I'm not shooting anywhere near what the current top shooters are shooting, but my eventual goal isn't to shoot just like them...it's to shoot better than them. And I don't see why it would be unreasonable to try any adjustments to either the gun or to technique that might increase the chances of accomplishing that goal.

Axel · Post by **Axel** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:15 am

My theory for Steyr writing about to never touch that screw is that you can end up with a very unreliable pistol if you overdo it. What company wants to have a rumour around it that it makes unreliable products...

Maybe unreliable in a dangerous way to. Perhaps accidential shoots can happen, you drop your loaded pistol on the bench and the pistol fires by it self... no good !!! Be careful !!!

But yes, I'm going to touch that screw... I have to...

Happy new year Igor/Ruig and all

/Axel

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:17 am

sparky wrote:The screw is there for a reason...because it allows adjustment. Otherwise, the factory would've just blanked it off or made it non-adjustable. The factory doesn't trust the average shooter to adjust it themselves, so they say don't touch. And if you're the average joe who is content with what he/she has and you don't want to even try anything else, then don't touch the screw, sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

Absolutely agree with every said word by you.

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:24 am

Off topic:

For example, I like to look through photos from shooting ranges from many countries.

Want to see some from russia?
Here are two self-extracted archives with photos from competitions:

http://de-kar.ru/shooting/Belgorod.exe

http://de-kar.ru/shooting/Voronezh.exe