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Why Does My Morini 162EA Tear Targets?
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:02 pm
by Bob LeDoux
I've had my 162EA for three years; put about 20,000 shots through it. It has always left torn holes in targets. Sometimes it tears out a strip the width of a scoring ring.
Velocity is 450 fps. Standard deviation is about 4 fps.
I find it hard to believe the velocity is too low. Other shooters at the same speed don't have this problem.
Could the pellets be tumbling? How would I check?
I'm shooting at National and American brand targets. I haven't tried Edelmann's, though they have a reputation for clean shooting.
I don't have this problem with my 10 meter rifle at 650 fps.
some thoughts on the matter....
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:34 pm
by JoeG
Bob,
At 450 fps the hole in the paper should be fairly clean but there are several factors involved. As you have heard, the Edelmann targets are significantly better in this regard. In addition, regardless of whose targets you are using storage conditions can have a great influence. I keep my supply of targets in ziplock plastic bags which are then kept in a plastic storage container with several dehumidifier packs inside. Keeping them totally dry is critical to getting the cleanest hole punched in the paper. In the meantime treat yourself to some of the Edelmann targets, you will be very quickly spoiled by their heavier gauge qualities. Good shooting, Joe G.
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:40 pm
by TomF
you dont say what pellets you are using
if you are not shooting wadcutters you can expect all targets to tear and leave ragged holes
Joe G. Is Right
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:16 am
by deleted1
JoeG wrote:Bob,
At 450 fps the hole in the paper should be fairly clean but there are several factors involved. As you have heard, the Edelmann targets are significantly better in this regard. In addition, regardless of whose targets you are using storage conditions can have a great influence. I keep my supply of targets in ziplock plastic bags which are then kept in a plastic storage container with several dehumidifier packs inside. Keeping them totally dry is critical to getting the cleanest hole punched in the paper. In the meantime treat yourself to some of the Edelmann targets, you will be very quickly spoiled by their heavier gauge qualities. Good shooting, Joe G.
Joe G knows what it's all about, its the humidity changesand the grade of paper---Edelmann are the very best and cleanest---but I also keep my personal targets in an air tight container with driex pellets,
Thanks for Comments
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:23 am
by Bob LeDoux
I'm shooting RWS R-10's.
Humidity is probably the answer. I buy the targets by the thousand, and it takes me about three months to go through a set. They sit on my shelf in a 60% humidity environment.
Morini M162 tearing papertargets
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:33 am
by fjodor
Reportedly, a few Morini compressed air pistols of the 162 class. have made it past the quality control of the factory with some minor flaws.
One flaw, that have resulted in the same fenomenon you are describing, have been caused by a none-perfect compensator.
It seeems that a very few compensator are machined a little off-center. This means that your speeding pellet by passing the compensator chambers might slightly tuch the inner side of the compensator orifice. There is a relatively tight fit here, so the slightest off-enter positioning of the compensator, or the slightest fault in manufacture of a compensator, can result in an unstable pellet.
If pellets are tuching the inner of the compendator, this could result in faint a lead streak, sometimes visible with a magnifying glass.
The problems you are encountering with your pistol could have other causes, though.
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:19 pm
by TomF
Can you document you "reportedly" source?
Flawed Compensator Test
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:41 pm
by Bob LeDoux
I decided to look into compensator misalignment as a cause for my target tearout:
I removed the compensator. The front face is the only surface that impinges within the vicinity of the pellet. It is lightly covered with lead dust, with no evidence of pellet contact. Sighting down through the unit, all construction appears to be in good alignment.
I fired a number of shots without the compensator on the gun. Hitting the target was an interesting proposition, as the front sight was missing. I found no change in the tearout problem.
Conclusion: Compensator is not contributing to target tearout.
Damp targets continues to float to the top.
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:55 pm
by Bruce Martindale
450 is a little light, mine came in at 435 and when I turned in the screw, the plug jammed in the hammer and it wouldnt fire. Anyway after polishing the plug I got it up to 500 and it shot much better. Also pardon me the targets cited are poor and they almost always tear but low velo aggravates it.
regards
Morini 162 "flaws"
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:33 am
by Fjodor
Yes, Tom I can. One 162 EM (long) was delivered with i compensator that was not machined perfectly. The pellet entrance holes in the target displayed skewnes, and with some tearing ot the paper, even when using Edelmann and Kromer targets. Testfiring from a fixture showed the grooping ability was not satisfactory from this gun.
The compensator was exchanged by the gunshop, and with the new compensator the gun shot perfectly, as Morini guns have a reputation for!
I can document this, because the owner of this pistol is a member of my club. This very pistol was bought late in the year 2002. And in my country there has been one more with a similar flaw.
By the way, Tom, I consider Morini match compressed air guns among the very best. That is the reason I at the monent own two 162 pistols
One is a 162 long (purchased 2001) with mecanical trigger. The other is a 162 (purchased 2003 ) short with electrical trigger.
I have also owned a Feinwerkbau M34 since 2000, and a Steyr M10 since 2003. Which one I prefer? I think it is a matter of taste. I doing my best shooting with the 162 with mecanical trigger. That is the gun I have practised most.
Even the most expensive match guns can have flaws, Tom. I have been a competition shooter since 1970, and have I also participated in international competitions. I have owned and used extensively many models of match pistols that have been showing up during the years, and I have aquired some experience, I think.
More Questions
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:45 am
by Bob LeDoux
I'm puzzled the pistol would make a tight group at quality checkout and then have the group deteriorate.
On my Morini, the compensator is slip fit over the barrel. The tolerance between the two units is less than a thousandth of an inch. The compensator is mounted in place using a set (grub) screw that fits into an indent in the barrel. The length of the compensator, over the barrel would permit almost no variation to develop over time.
If your pistol has a good factory test group, I'd be hard pressed to see how the compensator could change that over time.
tearing paper
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:55 am
by Dusty
I print my own targets on a laser printer using cheap paper. To avoid tearing, I back the paper with multiple sheets of cardboard, which also serves as backstop. It makes for clean holes, and is very quiet.
I have played with speeds, but all holes are fine.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:06 am
by TomF
Fjodor, you said "reportedly" which generally means that it is documented somewhere. A pistol of this quality has extensive QC and is target tested before it leaves the factory. Which makes the assertion of the comp being fitted off center as original a matter of question.
If you had said you have first hand knowledge of the cause, then their would have been no question.
Thanks for the explanation.
Re: More Questions
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:03 pm
by Karita
Bob LeDoux wrote:I'm puzzled the pistol would make a tight group at quality checkout and then have the group deteriorate.
On my Morini, the compensator is slip fit over the barrel. The tolerance between the two units is less than a thousandth of an inch. The compensator is mounted in place using a set (grub) screw that fits into an indent in the barrel. The length of the compensator, over the barrel would permit almost no variation to develop over time.
If your pistol has a good factory test group, I'd be hard pressed to see how the compensator could change that over time.
Your problem, Bob, is that you seem to lack experience. And You don´t like facts that does not fit your opinion. There are really some problems with some Morini guns out there, Bob.
A few years back a well reputed gun magazine in Europa was running a test over some .22 rifles. These were guns in the medium price range, intended for informal plinking and probably small game hunting. One of the rifles submitted from the different importers hade one peculiar flaw. This very rifle was of tzekkian manufacture, and it was a bolt action design.
The test target that followed the rifle (serialnumber of gun printed on target, along with date of test firing, and signature of testshooter) was impressive indeed.
The problem was that the hole for the firing pin was not drilled completely through the bolt face. With the bolt supplied (this bolt had matching serialnumber too) the gun could actually never have been fired.
But at least, the test target was impressive!
This incident has been repeatedly referred to during the years.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:16 pm
by TomF
Yep, same everywhere. Heck with the majority, the minority gets all the attention.
Test Targets
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:41 pm
by Paul.
I think that sometimes the test targets are just done with the barrel in a fixture. It indicates the precision of the rifling and crown, but does not indicate the quality of the overall fit and finish of the pistol.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:47 am
by TomF
Paul,
The test target is done in a test fixture to take away the human factor, AND, specifically, to demonstrate the "quality of the overall fit and finsih of the pistol."