TargetTalk

I'm sure you've all heard variations on this question a million times, but....

I'm looking to buy my first match pistol, and have been considering a (hopefully used) FBW 100 or 103 or a similar pneumatic. My thinking is that I can begin training with the minimal investment, and move up to a PCP once my skills merit it.

The other part of me says buy my "last pistol first", make the investment, and go for a PCP pistol now.

I'm wondering what people think about the transition from training with pneumatics, vs. Pre-compressed. I'd rather not train with a pistol that I'm going to have to "unlearn" once I move up.

Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated...

If you are new to air pistol and you are uncertain whether to stay with it, start with an IZH-46--about $275. Pilkington's has them.

Then, you can decide to move to a top level gun, if and when, your scores and interest warrant it.

If you are really serious about this game, go for a top level PCP gun with a pump or scuba tank.

The FWB 103 is an excellent gun; but it is really an orphan. Serious competitors don't want the effort and distraction of a pumpup. It is also awfully expensive for "testing the waters." It is more costly than some new, top level, PCP guns.

Just my opinion, after choosing carefully between a FWB 103 and P34.

As Bob mentioned, the Izh-46 seems to be the standard entry-level gun. It's effectively a $450 gun for $250 - an excellent bargain.

The FWB SSPs are excellent - fully as competitive as the PCP guns - but are just as expensive as a PCP gun. You do get rid of the pump or SCUBA tank, but have to pump the gun up for each shot. It's up to you.

One option that you might want to keep in mind are the cheaper PCP pistols. FAS, in particular, has one that's running about $600 new - and you won't find a FWB 103 for anywhere near that cheap.

If you are totally new, the thing you (I am too) working on is more about your body in reaction to the target than your body in reaction to the gun.
The gross learning curve is really about you and the target, I do not think that there is much (if anything) to unlearn per se when switching to a new gun that's a "better gun", it seems that a better gun allows you to focus more on the small things you are doing "wrong" or not as well, than the bigger issues confronted by a begining AP shooter. At such time that you feel the gun is holding you back (advice given to me here) that's a good time to switch.
That all being said, if you think this is the "game for you" you may just be better off buying the last gun you will own now, taking the full plunge and you will be just a little a head fo the game. If you are not sure, I would not buy a $900-$1200 gun now in single stroke either. To me the commitment is more the gun, not the support equipment as you are looking at what? $200 for a tank, that will get you 30 ish fills? The commitment to the gun is the investment, not the do dads that go with it, at least in the match pistol world.
I am lucky because I shoot the cheap gun (IZH-46) but own expensive guns and have all the support for the PCP's. I shot my p 34 the other day to see where I was and after threee months my score with the IZH and the p34 were near identical, the p34 giving me 5 more points (having not trained with it at all) mostly due to the trigger.
My last target was a 538 with my IZH, my first target was a 543 with the p 34. I quickly swiched back to the IZH as I want to go further with it before making the switch.

EDIT:

One more item:

keep a training log, it will help you track your progress. I keep one on the computer BUT I am moving to a book so I can draw pictures.

Len_R wrote:I quickly swiched back to the IZH as I want to go further with it before making the switch.

Sorry but I don't understand this statement. I also started with the IZH and then after about a year got up the courage to spend the bucks for a Steyr LP10. I still have the IZH, but I don't shoot it (my son does). If you have a top end gun, why not use it all the time? The P34 won't bite if your scores aren't high enough. My LP10 should sometimes. :-)

It's just something I want to do, I want to see how far I can go with the IZH

Mack wrote:

Len_R wrote:I quickly swiched back to the IZH as I want to go further with it before making the switch.

Sorry but I don't understand this statement. I also started with the IZH and then after about a year got up the courage to spend the bucks for a Steyr LP10. I still have the IZH, but I don't shoot it (my son does). If you have a top end gun, why not use it all the time? The P34 won't bite if your scores aren't high enough. My LP10 should sometimes. :-)

Hi,

The IZH's make great a "first pistol" but I would try one before you drop your cash on one since your post suggests your going to replace it at a later date. I have notied a few things about mine.

1. The pistol is muzzle heavy.

2. The trigger is rather far forward. There is a screw to adjust it but mine is frozen and other shooters have had the same issue. (I left it alone rather than risk breaking anything.

3. The sights are a little clunky for lack of a better word. They aren't bad, but compared to the higher end ones, they aren't as sharp even with smoke on them.

You may want to make the jump to a used CA or CO2 pistol right away. Don't over look the used CO2's. They aren't much behind the newer CA's and for anything less than the top levels, they are just fine.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

An FWB 65 or 80 might be an option. After shooting a FWB 65, I was hooked. Sure it isn't a modern wonder pistol but, the price was right and it serves me well. I must admit though, I have started eyeing the newer PCP pistols though.

Sid

A lot of good thoughts above on your question. I know for myself I had to go through a couple of steps before moving into what I finally decided I wanted to shoot. After a short stint with a Gamo Compact I purchased an IZH-46 which I shot for a couple of years before jumping up to a Steyr LP-1 pcp which then became my main shooter. I also became a bit of a collector along the way and found I am very fond of single stroke pneumatics (for their simplicity). I have a FWB 103 which I love and have shot in matches many times. For myself, I don't find the pumping a distraction or a physical drain. I also have a number of nice older CO2 guns that are great shooters too. Bottom line, I would agree with the comments above and suggest you first try to get to shoot some of your possible choices and maybe otherwise start with something that isn't too costly so it will be easier to move to the next step as you gain experience as to what suits you best in a pistol. Regardless, have fun and enjoy the journey, Joe G.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my question - and the good advice.

There's one other reason for going low cost at the beginning: Which of the high cost guns are you going to buy? Which have you tried? Have you shot a 103? Why not consider the lower cost a K58?

I wasn't able to try the different top-of-the-line pistols before I bought. They just weren't around the local area-within 100 miles. So I read the Target Talk Archives.

After reading all I could, I bought a FWB P34. It was a mistake for me. Now I shoot a Morini 162, which I love. Your mileage may vary. The P34 sits in its foam box on the shelf. Because there is a glut of these guns, used, on the market, used prices are low for a P34. (Just look at Pilkington's used gun inventory.)

A lower cost gun will give you time to try the different models, before putting down lots of hard cash on the "right one." Its frustrating, when you buy the wrong one, when your decision is based on other peoples' experiences, rather than your own.

If you are in this boat, ask Pilkingtons what they can do to help.

you really can't go wrong with an IZH-46 as a starter. Enjoy the sport. THEN talk to Warren and try a Morini or Steyr or whatever high end gun that strikes you. If you travel, or go shooting with someone that has a CA or CO2, (wich ever you don't have) you always have your Izzy. It makes a great back up gun for when your tank goes down for a refill too! It's like shooting an old friend.

One caveat with a FWB 65 - I have tennis elbow as I play a lot of squash (fortunately I use my right hand for this, and shoot left handed) The cocking effort on the FWB 65 at my club is VERY painful! A FAS 604 is much more comfortable.

Nik

Everyone seems to agree on the IZH 46, it's a great gun, but soon you will want a new PCP. If you are serious about your commitment to shooting air pistols, buy the best one you can afford now, you won't regret it. Buy what the champions use, Steyr, Morini, FWB or Pardini. I went the cheap way first, and bought three pistols before buying a high end PCP. In the long run, it cost me way more, I lost money selling used pistols, the other option was to have them collect dust on a shelf.

My humble opinion..

Two thoughts:
You MUST have faith in your equipment. If you buy the lower-priced gun, you will always question if it's you or the gun; could I have done that much better if I'd just spent the bucks. Because you are already questioning whether to "go big" or not - GO BIG. If you didn't know any better, then it might be a different story.
Secondly, the higher-end guns have a much better resale percentage than the lower end.

I agree with Helen. Go for the best you can afford. You will eliminate the variable of questioning the potential of your equipment. The IZH grip is not very ergonomic. You will need an expert to help with fit or buy another grip. The grips, sights and trigger on any top level compressed air AP (Morini, Pardini, Steyr, Anschutz), not to mention overall quality will make progress easier. If you really don't like AP you can easily recoup 90% of your investment. Chances are you'll keep the best for its lasting quality.
I was lucky to start with a Steyr LP-1. I've tried lesser pistols and am glad I did not waste my time or money on them.
Enjoy,
Jim

I started....years ago with Diana 10M....was away for long time and came back to IZH 46 courtesy of Warren. Great pisotl...great bargain. Modified the grips to be quite serviceable and it still shoots better than me. However, I stepped up to LP1 and now shoot it almost exclusively. It was used, but still a grand bargain. I am now starting to shoot better with it than the 46, but that is due as much to practice as equipment. But I feel better shooting the LP1 ....and that is the reason to go with it....it won't hold me back....only I can do that. Bottom line.....quality has no regret and it is merely a matter of what you intend to invest. For modest investment, hard to beat the quality of the IZH. For a wee bit more, impossible to beat superior pistol from the used category. If there aren't any real limits.....simply buy the top of the line...and enjoy. Good shooting. Craig

Don't ever make the mistake of blaming the equipment ;~) It is always the shooter as the cause of 8's and lower even with a lowly Daisy 717. If you are planning on going to the Olympics then go with what the current winners are using. If you plan on shooting at the club level use whatever you are comfortable with. How the pistol feels in your hand is as important as anything. Best of all would be to try several before you buy but that is not always possible. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

IZH's are easy to sell if you don't modify the grips. You will only take about a $40 hit which isn't that much. Silhouette shooters will snap em up at somewhere around $210 all day long.

Helen wrote:Two thoughts:
You MUST have faith in your equipment. If you buy the lower-priced gun, you will always question if it's you or the gun; could I have done that much better if I'd just spent the bucks. Because you are already questioning whether to "go big" or not - GO BIG. If you didn't know any better, then it might be a different story.
Secondly, the higher-end guns have a much better resale percentage than the lower end.

As a newcomer to this end of shooting sports I am the very proud owner of anIZH 46m. I did modify the grip but but after three matches I am shooting an average of 536. I know that I have much more potential with this gun, and at this point I can't see spending a thousand dollars for something I am already getting. Now, that being said how about a sponsor to pony up an LP1 and a years worth pellets.(grin) Good luck and I think the best advice would be to try as many as you can. In my area there just are not any stores that you can just go try 1200 dollar airguns.

Just for the record, I went with the IZH-46M, about 8 weeks ago, and have been thrilled with it! Simple, accurate, and a lot of fun.