TargetTalk

I wasn't happy with the rod guide that came with my rifle, so I made my own. It came out way better than I expected. It's very similar to Jeff Madison's (Mwerks), but with a much longer insert, and o-rings on the guide body as well as the insert. It fit's in the action like the insert fits in the back of the guide. Unintended consequences...no aluminum oxide dragging on the inside of your receiver.

I made inserts for 20 cal. (.187) Pro-shot and others, 22 ca.l (.202) Pro-shot and others, and 17 cal. (.156) Pro-shot and others. Every piece is permanently marked KK500 and rod size on the inserts. There's a ton of hand work in these, so they'll be more than the standard guide.

If there is any interest, I will post prices and photos in the appropriate forum.

Thanks,

Gerry

Very interested.

also, how does the OEM rod guide cause,

'aluminum oxide dragging on the inside of your receiver'

GolfShot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:52 pm Very interested.

also, how does the OEM rod guide cause,

'aluminum oxide dragging on the inside of your receiver'

I think Jerry was referring to his rod guide. Jeff Madison's rod guides are aluminium, so I'd infer that Jerry's is also. I've not noticed any wear on the receiver in more than ten years of using an MWerks guide, but external o-rings won't hurt.

Tim S wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:14 pm

GolfShot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:52 pm Very interested.

also, how does the OEM rod guide cause,

'aluminum oxide dragging on the inside of your receiver'

I think Jerry was referring to his rod guide. Jeff Madison's rod guides are aluminium, so I'd infer that Jerry's is also. I've not noticed any wear on the receiver in more than ten years of using an MWerks guide, but external o-rings won't hurt.

Do you have a link to Jeffs guide rods as Ive never heard of them.

GolfShot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:27 pm
Do you have a link to Jeffs guide rods as Ive never heard of them.

No, I'm afraid not. I think Jeff retired a few years ago. I remember emailing about an insert for a new rod without reply; that would have been about 2014.

Yes, my guides are aluminum. I bought a couple of guides from Mr. Madison in 2018. I called to order a KK 500 guide in 2020 and he had retired. That' s when I made my first guide.

My guide will make you smile when you insert it in the action.

Gerry

analretentive wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:25 pm Yes, my guides are aluminum. I bought a couple of guides from Mr. Madison in 2018. I called to order a KK 500 guide in 2020 and he had retired. That' s when I made my first guide.

My guide will make you smile when you insert it in the action.

Gerry

Photos and price please.

After looking at the photos posted in the for sale section im having a hard time figuring out what makes this better than the OEM.

Very cool! Similar to the Grunig guide but with the extra O rings and a rod specific guide which I assume needs to be removed to fit fresh patches or felts.

Top job, remember there are other actions out there that need guides too!

Yeah, I researched on line to see if anyone else was using o-rings on the outside of the body, and saw those. Believe it or not, I didn't see that before I made my first one about 2 years ago.

I only own three rifles and have made guides for them all. The KK500 was the simplest. I test every guide for fit and function, and I can't do that without the rifle. I would very much like to make guides for about half a dozen different rifles but mine are very action specific, and I can't afford to buy rifles to use as templates.

Judging by the interest, or lack thereof, I probably will not make any more period.

Maybe I should call it a cyber-guide, or offer bluetooth connectivity?

Thanks for your comments.

Gerry

The insert stays on the rod. The guide stays in the action. I keep three rods w/inserts....20 with nylon .22 brush, .20 with .22 jag, and .20 with .22 bronze brush.

Gerry

analretentive wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:30 am Yeah, I researched on line to see if anyone else was using o-rings on the outside of the body, and saw those. Believe it or not, I didn't see that before I made my first one about 2 years ago.

I only own three rifles and have made guides for them all. The KK500 was the simplest. I test every guide for fit and function, and I can't do that without the rifle. I would very much like to make guides for about half a dozen different rifles but mine are very action specific, and I can't afford to buy rifles to use as templates.

Judging by the interest, or lack thereof, I probably will not make any more period.

Maybe I should call it a cyber-guide, or offer bluetooth connectivity?

Thanks for your comments.

Gerry

After looking at the photos posted in the for sale section im having a hard time figuring out what makes this better than the OEM.

The insert for the rod, essentially a mini-guide that plugs into the guide, should keep the rod straighter and better centred.

Nearly all of y'all know this, but I'll say it anyway. Most worn out rimfire barrels were ruined by cleaning rods...mostly from the rod contacting the chamber throat thousands of times. A standard one piece rod guide has to be large enough (i.d.) to accept a jag with a patch or a brush or other implement to pass through. Once this end piece has passed through the guide, the rod is quite loose. With a 2 piece guide,whatever is used on the end of a rod must be put on in front of the insert, and the rod stays very well supported. ( I use a .190 reamer to finish the bore for a .187 rod...not much room.) This maintains a great deal more rod rigidity and concentricity passing into the chamber, as long as everything else is tight and concentric. The patch or brush keep the rod concentric on that end, but if the other end is loose? The rod will drag in the throat and that's when damage occurs. I test my guides by using a std .22 rod with bare front end. I insert the rod to see if the rod enters the chamber without touching; it's easy to feel. The Walther guide that came with my rifle fails this test every time; so will most every other one piece guide as well as some poorly made (One size fits all) 2 piece guides.

The guide body is step bored. About 3" x 1/2" in back to accept the insert, and 2" x .224 in front to allow brush or jag to pass through. This is also done with very close tolerances, and the o-rings take up any slack. The o-rings worked out very well on the guide body as well.

I was surprised at how loosely the Walther guide fit in the receiver, and I was already spoiled by using Jeff Madison's excellent two piece guides. Also,the Walther guide is made for a .22 rod and most competitors I know use .20 rods...some use .17.

Tim, thank you for that. I just thought I'd elaborate.

Gerry

I love quality and your bore guide is that in spades. Don't give up, a lot of kk500 owners and more everyday who haven't seen or heard about your build. The only thing the Walther supplied "bore guide" is good for is cocking/uncocking the bolt, it fails miserably at protecting the bore.

Thanks for the kind words, and btw I do recognize you as rbs. I don't have the capability to machine that de-cocker into the guide, but I found out I could cock and de-cock by hand.

Gerry

I just received the bore guide with Delrin insert. Beautiful, and functional. Everyone needs one.