TargetTalk

I've dusted off my Morini CM84, and am enjoying shooting it now that the weather in New England is better. One problem I've had for years is that after about 15 or 20 shots, it starts getting increasingly difficult to get the rounds to chamber. It will get to the point where I can barely push them about 95% of the way in, and then the breech block cams the rounds into place when I close the action. Frequently, that knocks enough stuff loose that the next few rounds will chamber with less effort, and then it starts to get harder & harder again. After that, every 6 or 7 rounds the cycle repeats itself.

The Morini has an extremely effective extractor, so that is never an issue. I remember having the same problem with my Pardini PGP 75, only the extractor in those is much less robust. I would often end up prying rounds out of the chamber with a spent case.

Brushing the chamber and pulling a patch through will fix it for another 15 or 20 rounds. I've tried a couple of different kinds of ammo, and haven't noticed much difference.

Given that I've experienced this on two very different free pistols, I'm guessing that it is part of life with a tight chamber. I've tried REALLY making sure the chamber is clean before I shoot, but that doesn't seem to help much. If I get a chance, I want to check the chamber with my borescope. It's always possible there is a bit of corrosion making things worse, and the chamber needs polishing. I think it's gotten a bit worse over time, but it could just be the ammo I'm using.

Does everyone have this problem, or is it likely to be my pistols and/or ammo? I generally try to avoid ammo with greasy bullet lubricant, but maybe that helps eliminate the problem.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Disclaimer: I've never handled, let alone owned, a CM84. That said, in a number of Pardini standard pistols, free pistol and TOZ35s, RWS Target has been trouble-free chambering and extracting. It was Don Nygord's recommendation, and I took it.

RWS Target Rifle or Target Pistol? I assume Target Pistol. Unfortunately, I think RWS has stopped importing both into the US. I know Neal Stepp no longer sells either.

Presumably the bullet lube is consistent throughout their line (if they haven't changed it since Nygord was around). That means the Norma TAC might work just as well (and it's a lot less expensive).

I think I have some Target Rifle I can try, and I have a box of Norma TAC as well. I will "give them a shot."

Thanks!

Try some SK if you can get it. The lube is more greasy than waxy if you know what I mean!

I have lots of SK, so I will add that to the list of ammo to try. I may try that first because I have several bricks of it.

Keep the suggestions coming, and I will report back when I have some data. Unfortunately the next week is supposed to be rainy, so it may be a while.

Thanks!

The Morini is a tight chamber, so the old addage of European gun European ammo comes to play.
There is a slight difference between European and American specification for .22 Long Rifle.
My Morini Free is one of the very first built (mid 80's) and very early on I ran an American Match grade
chambering reamer in the chamber.
No difference was seen to the machine rest group, but the extracting and ejecting problem was solved.
This allowed me to use any ammo in the pistol.
Availibility is the problem these days, you have to use what ever you can get,
I have since done it to more than 20 Morini's.
Bench rest shooters might argue but the slightly bigger vhamber does not cause shots in the white with
Free pistol, the nut on the butt does.

Greetings,

In my past, I shot a Haemmerli 106 with a custom barrel. It was chambered with a Winchester M52 profile. I used the butt end of a toothbrush to seat the bullet fully into the chamber.

Cheers,

Dave

It sounds like the nature of the beast, but that if I try European ammo, I may be OK. Fortunately, that is getting more available than it was even a year ago. Most of it is still pricey, but the Norma Tac isn't too bad, and it's not like I shoot a ton of it every year.

I've had the same problem with my TOZ. Like you, I used something to poke it into the chamber and closed the breech to fully chamber.

No biggie!

I use SK Pistol Match. Straight out of the box, I find that I get a build up of grease/wax in the chamber that tends to make both seating and extracting difficult and annoying. So, before a match or practice session, I tip my rounds into a rag and roll them around to clean most of the wax off. Doing this leads to faultless operation.

"RWS Target Rifle or Target Pistol? I assume Target Pistol. Unfortunately, I think RWS has stopped importing both into the US. I know Neal Stepp no longer sells either."

I've only ever used the original "Target" which then became "Target Rifle."

The team I help coach has several Benelli semi-autos that prefer RWS Target Rifle, for reasons I'm still trying to figure out. We ordered some a number of years ago, and they substituted Target Pistol. They are definitely loaded different, and they wouldn't cycle the fussy pistols very well.

Weather conditions, if you shoot outdoors, can affect fouling build-up. So, sometimes, even ammo that has been trouble free can cause this problem.
I have a cartridge seater made from a short (6" or so) length of hard maple dowel just small enough in diameter to fit the cleaning rod hole in the grip. It has a round ball handle to make it easy to press in a cartridge. It also saves wear on the camming surface between the loading lever and breech block.
Some free pistols, like older Hämmerli, were chambered so the rifling engraved into the leading band of the bullet when fully chambered.

One of the 25 meter events (Sport or Standard Pistol, I forget which) at the National Collegiate Championships in March was on a very windy & drizzly day. Lots of people had malfunctions, probably from the moisture making the chamber fouling sticky.

TonyO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:18 pm ... I find that I get a build up of grease/wax in the chamber that tends to make both seating and extracting difficult and annoying. So, before a match or practice session, I tip my rounds into a rag and roll them around to clean most of the wax off. Doing this leads to faultless operation.

This. I've had a similar issue using match ammo in a rimfire revolver. The wax gums up the cylinder chambers in just a few rounds.

I recently bought a bulk box of Federal Auto Match, it's slightly higher velocity but most importantly it appears to be completely unlubed. The 40 grain lead bullets are silver and dry. It shoots, and ejects, beautifully from the revolver. At $20 for 325 rounds, it sure is easy to try!

My FP colleague and I have had the same problem. He shoots a Morini CM84E and I a Hammerli/Walther FP60 both using CCI SV ammo. Our solution has been to clean the waxy lube off the rounds using either heat (my colleague) or solvent (me). I have posted on this issue recently. The heat is generated by placing the ammo nose down on a paper towel under a glass bowl in the sun (we’ve got plenty if that down here). You can see the marks left on the towel from the lube running off. I use white/mineral spirit in a bowl and swoosh the rounds around briefly before drying and spraying with a spritz of Ballistol or similar. My method seems to yield the occasional dud round. However, chambering problems are resolved.

I've found SK ammunition to minimise the issue (European gun, European ammo). I think the oily rather than waxy lube used on SK ammo helps. Unfortunately European ammo tends to be pretty expensive here.

I think at the end of the day, I’d prefer David M's solution of a SAAMI chamber reamer. One would need to be extremely careful with that, especially the depth/length of the chamber.

Bob

Shot a full match with sighters with the CM84e today. Used SK pistol match special. Zero issues.

Dave

If the weather around Boston ever improves, I will try out some of the SK Pistol match I have. If it's not raining, temperatures this week are supposed to get close to 90F by 11 am, with humidity close to 80%. Yuck...

I went to the range to practice today, and tried SK Pistol Match ammo. The heat & humidity finally got to to be too much for me, and I stopped after 50 rounds. I didn't have ANY issues with difficult feeding, but the ejector would only pop the cases back 3 or 4 millimeters, and I'd have to remove them manually. I got pretty good at flicking them out with a fingernail. I found this far less annoying that having to to jam rounds into the chamber, and it was almost automatic by the time I melted & crawled home.

In addition to the lube, I've seen evidence in my MG2 that makes me suspect the SK cases may be softer brass. If so, they may expand more on firing. In examining the fired cases, I see less carbon on the outside near the mouths than with the ammo that gets hard to load. The reduced carbon getting blown back around the cases may help with feeding, but the increased expansion of softer brass might make the rounds harder to pop out. The poor ejection may also be from higher pressure. I'm guessing the "pistol" ammo uses faster burning powder than typical standard velocity designed for longer rifle barrels.

I'll have to experiment some more, but it may also have to do with the different bullet shapes between brands. I don't have a photo (yet) of the different free pistol options, but here is a picture of a couple brands the college team I help coach uses:
The full diameter portion of the RWS bullet starts further back than on the other two, so it may not engage the rifling and shave bits of lead off to hinder feeding.

In any event, I now have an option I can use in matches that I won't have to fight with (at least with feeding). Norma Tac-22 ammo is also made by the SK/Lapua factory (based on the headstamp), and it costs about half as much as SK Pistol Match. I have one box, and I can try that the next time I practice.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

Coincidentally, I also had the issue where the SK wouldn't fully eject. As you said, only 3-4mm, but I also found it not too problematic. I didn't really count that as an "issue"!

Dave