TargetTalk

USA Shooting is thrilled to announce 2021 dates for Winter Airgun Pistol National Championships in close partnership with the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). The event will be held December 5-8, 2021 at the (CMP) range in Anniston, Alabama.

“We’re very grateful to be able to lean on our partners at CMP once again to make this match a possibility for our pistol athletes,” said Breanne Orey, Director of Competitions at USA Shooting.

This match will serve as the Air Pistol National Championships for 2021. Please note, unlike rifle, Winter Airgun Pistol National Championships will only take place in Anniston, Alabama.

Like Rifle, Winter Airgun Pistol National Championships will feature a 3-person team event and a unique opportunity for mixed team competition. Athletes will also have chances to win cash prizes and cases from our partners at SKB.

Registration for both Winter Airgun Rifle and Winter Airgun Pistol National Championships will open October 9, 2021 to celebrate 10.9 day. Match program and additional information will be available then.

Am I reading this correctly, only one of the three days is individual competition? https://www.usashooting.org/library/Com ... _10.12.pdf
I'm not thrilled to spend all the money to travel and use my limited time off from work for only one day. Am I thinking about this the wrong way? I don't understand the value of the team events, especially if the teams are randomly selected for many participants. What am I missing here?
RyanA

That's not the way I read the schedule. Here is what is shown on the link you posted:
SCHEDULE:
December 5th – Check-In & Training
December 6th – Match Day 1 & ISSF Finals
December 7th – Match Day 2 & 3-Person Team Event
December 8th – Mixed Team Event

The 6th is day one of individual competition with ISSF Finals.
The 7th is day two of individual competition.
The 7th is also the day for the 3 person team event.
Looks to me to be two days of competition for an individual, and then some opportunities to try the team events if you are so inclined.

I agree that the match program implies this, but I should have linked to the actual schedule. This seems very clear that there is only one day of individual competition (and the finals are on the first day): https://www.usashooting.org/library/Com ... hedule.pdf

I stand corrected.

So the $215 entry fee covers ONE DAY of shooting, if you're not on a team?

That costs $3.58 per shot.

I think and I may be wrong, it's happened before, that there a 2 individual matches. A individual match on day 1 plus finals and a individual match on day 2 plus the 3 person team event. But I could be wrong. Rifle was always 1 match per day and then a final. I read the match program and it says" Your highest 60-shot qualification score from Match Day 2 (December 7th) counts toward your Round 1 qualification team score, totaling 180 shots for the team." So that seems to indicate 2 days of individual matches.


Scott

p.s. guess I should have read the thread more , that's quite the expensive match!

Scott J wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:41 pm . . . that there a 2 individual matches. A individual match on day 1 plus finals and a individual match on day 2 . . . that's quite the expensive match!

Hotel reservations? Do I pay for one night or two?

Based on vague instructions, perhaps I pay needlessly for two nights; Voile', cost per shot goes to five bucks per pellet.

RyanA wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:30 pm I agree that the match program implies this, but I should have linked to the actual schedule. This seems very clear that there is only one day of individual competition (and the finals are on the first day): https://www.usashooting.org/library/Com ... hedule.pdf

I agree with Ryan that the "National Championships" will just be a one day match and finals. This is totally stupid an another slight against pistol shooters by USA Shooting. Rifle shooters get a two day National Championships (as has historically been the case for many years), but pistol shooters only get one day and pay almost the same amount!

Get rid of the stupid team match and provide a real National Championship or stop calling it one!

dschaller wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:45 am pistol shooters only get one day and pay almost the same amount!

Here's the new paper Target for Nationals:

This is why my (rather large) club dropped their USAS membership a few years back.

They didn't give a shit and neither did we. Let's face it, most of us are not going for Olympic tryouts.

The one day individual event format may be great for those that may have always wanted to attend, but could not due to lack of vacation time, etc. Also, I believe there is squadding for those who may want to participate in the mixed event, at least.

m1963 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:47 pm . . . there is squadding for those who may want to participate in the mixed event . . . .

WTF is "three-person" mixed?

. . . and why is "three-person mixed" being held on December 07th - a date which will live in Infamy.

OK. I got tired of the speculation here and decided to go to USA Shooting for more information. I sent an email note to Alex who happens to be out of the office the rest of the week. But he left the email address of his assistant, Breanne Orey. So I sent her an email explaining the confusion around this event. Here is her reply:

Hi Marc,

The Pistol match has 2 days of 60-shot courses of fire. The first day is December 6, and it leads into ISSF finals. The second day is December 7, and the 60-shot course of fire leads into the 3-person team event. So for team selection purposes and competitors, each person will shoot 2 normal courses of fire. The last day, December 8, is solely dedicated to a Mixed team event. This will be ran with the same cadence that the ISSF would typically run a Mixed team event.

Also, everybody is on a team. Either a person designates who they want their team to be, or we will be building the teams for them. So, everyone is able to shoot all three days in all the events.

If anybody else can questions, they can send me an email. I’d be happy to answer them.

Best,

Breanne Orey | Manager of Competitions & Membership

1 Olympic Plaza

Colorado Springs, CO 80909

Breanne.orey@usashooting.org

Marc Orvin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:50 pm So, everyone is able to shoot all three days in all the events.

If anybody else can questions, they can send me an email.
Breanne.orey@usashooting.org

So, how many nights do I reserve a hotel room?

Instructions still ambiguous.

atomicgale wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:59 pm

Marc Orvin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:50 pm So, everyone is able to shoot all three days in all the events.

If anybody else can questions, they can send me an email.
Breanne.orey@usashooting.org

So, how many nights do I reserve a hotel room?

Instructions still ambiguous.

You can do like I did and ask her! I got a response within an hour.
But I guess I don't see the confusion. If you want to shoot the 3rd day, you can either form your own team or she will pair you up with someone.
Or, don't shoot the 3rd day and go home.
Best idea is to ask her.

Marc Orvin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:50 pm The first day is December 6, and it leads into ISSF finals. The second day is December 7, and the 60-shot course of fire leads into the 3-person team event. So for team selection purposes and competitors, each person will shoot 2 normal courses of fire.
Breanne.orey@usashooting.org

So is the ISSF finals meaningless (not used in team selection), or do you have to be in the top 8 on day one to get finals points and none even if you win day 2? Historically, you shoot two days of qualifiers, then the top 8 in total score for both days shoot the finals. Why change things just so you can have a totally useless 3 person team event? Who is pushing this idea that we need a 3 person team event more than a normal selection match?

I thought the instructions on the sign up page, and those that Marc received, seemed clear.

1- Shoot in the ISSF match and go home, or

2- Shoot the second day for squadding, for the final day (and go home, if you want), or

3- Shoot in the mixed team match on the final day.

m1963 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:55 pm 2- Shoot the second day for squadding, for the final day (and go home, if you want), or

What is "3-Person-Relay" anyhow?

What exactly is it? And why would someone miss work / miss class / or simply be stuck in a hotel room for an extra 24 hours of time plus $$$ to participate in this?

Verbatim of above emailed to Breanne.orey@usashooting.org [22Oct2021]

atomicgale wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:38 pm Verbatim of above emailed to Breanne.orey@usashooting.org [22Oct2021]

Response:

The 3-person team match is something that the ISSF has started to do at International matches. For example, our juniors participated in these matches at the recent Jr. World Championships, and won a few medals in the events as well. So, we want to include this event in Winter Airgun this year to mimic what the ISSF is doing anticipating that it will be at future ISSF events as well. For more details about what a 3-person team match looks like, you can refer to the information here: https://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.asp ... 092020.pdf

Additionally, the juniors who participate in SASP matches get to compete in team events at those matches. In an effort to cater toward that group of juniors, we feel having team events at Winter Airgun would work.

If you are familiar with the Winter Airgun competition last year, we introduced a “fun final” of sorts that pitted the top CMP Anniston competitor against the top CMP Camp Perry competitor. This year, we are introducing these teams events to have another new competition opportunity at Winter Airgun. The schedule for Winter Airgun this year was a collaboration between myself and the National Pistol Coach, Jason Turner.

The entry fee for the match covers two 60-shot courses of fire, ISSF Finals, the Mixed Team event, and the 3-person event. Each piece is part of the whole match, so it’s anticipated that all registrants would be competing in all events.