TargetTalk

I was at a high power range working on some targets with a couple of friends a bit back.
All was well for a early as the normal crowd of mil surp guys with Garands and some ar shooters came and went in the lanes next to us to the left.
About noon two guys pulled in with ar's chambered in 7.62x39 16" barrel and brakes and started blasting away dozens of rounds- wow these were loud and it wasn't long till we had to pack it up- the blast was just too much and now a couple of weeks past my ears are still ringing so I think the incident pushed my left ear over the edge and I have some damage now.

I was ear muffs and plugs- both 25 NNR.
Right now I am kicking myself that I didn't -
A- Pack it up when I saw those guys roll in with brakes.
or
B- Grab the 33 NNR earmuffs I had in the car and maybe had been using better ear plugs

Looking about it seems the round/brake combination is pushing 165 db or greater off to the side where we were and I am trying to sort out what to do going forward.

I don't see that any possible combination of earmuffs and plugs as on the market can attenuate this sort of rifle blast down to a safe level.
What- maybe the best plugs and earmuffs can buy 40 NNR?

That leaves 125 or so my ears are subjected to and right now it is not looking good for any high power rifle exposure with this one ear having taken a beating.

What is done for those who have to practice at a high power range with the normal assortment of caliber shot and now the increasingly popular brakes all these guys insist on putting on their rifles.

I am tempted to pack it in which is a damn shame but disgusted that it looks like I got hearing damage at the range.

This is what happens when jerks (not you, trboat) do things for no better reason than because they can.

Try to stay straight behind the rifle with brakes, either by moving your work station or asking the shooters to relocate more to your front.

If not possible, time to pack up until they finish.

Fire a few rounds next to them with your braked .378 Weatherby, preferably when they think the shooting is finished and take off their ear muffs.

I shoot with these under good earmuffs

https://www.amazon.com/Macks-Ultra-Soft ... B0051U7W32

and these are my ear muffs

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FL5E3DI/re ... origin1-20

And when I feel really oppressed, I get out my 3 inch Bond Arms derringer in 357 Mag and play with it. I shoot it offhand but wear a batting glove.

I was practicing at a indoor public range that had a pretty expensive hourly rate and ten minutes into my hour four individuals checked into the range, two to the two bays on the left of me and two on the two bays immediately to the right of me.

They unpack short barreled 223 rifles and they put their targets 10 foot down range and proceed to open fire.

After a couple minutes I had a serious migraine, not from the sound but from the pressure spikes. Forget trying to practice slow fire at 25 yards, the pressure waves prevented any type of precision shooting.

Glanced over my shoulder and saw that they had a couple of cases of ammo that they wheeled in on a hand dolly.

Had to exit the range and forfeit the rest of my time, they would not give a refund. Forty bucks down the drain.

Its too bad because I had talked with the manager about possibly getting a bullseye league started at that facility and he was willing to give me a chance to get it started. Unfortunately, I have lost all interest in developing a bullseye league there even though it is only a couple miles from my new home.

Now don't get me wrong, I am sure them fella's were having fun and enjoying themselves. And I have nothing against the spray and pray crowd, sometimes they can be rather entertaining, but the people running the range could have relocated me to the other range or have specific times when rifle cartridges are permitted.

Even with the short ten minute practice session, I did get some questions from other curious onlookers concerning my Pardini, how was I able to shoot such small groups at 25 yards, and where could they get a pisol box like mine. So there may be some interest within the customers of that establishment but it was downright painful to be in that range with those rifles.

Regards,
Crankster

crankythunder wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:39 am

After a couple minutes I had a serious migraine, not from the sound but from the pressure spikes.
…….it was downright painful to be in that range with those rifles.

Regards,
Crankster

I am recovering from an SAH in 2020.

Following this range trip my symptoms popped up again- vision problems, headaches and numbness in addition to the hearing problems.

The military is finding that blast damage is occurring in teams training with high power rifle.
At this juncture it is simply not known where the threshold lies for traumatic brain injury caused by weapons muzzle blast wave forms.

The firearms community is pretty much “just grow a pair- rifles are loud”.

I see it as a whole fleet of muzzle devices are sold into the retail market and there is simply no empirical data on the wave form they produce and safe distance from muzzle for other persons on the line at ranges.

Honestly it pisses me off.

I had guests with me so was distracted and just “manned up” and ignored what I could damn well tell were too loud condition to be at the line.
A couple minutes after I had had all I could take from the brakes they both stopped shooting as they couldn’t take these rifles reports any longer.

Now I have to hope my hearing settles down and this ringing isn’t permanent.

It sucks- I don’t blame the guys specifically but blame that place where this firearm segment is that it is so widespread that brakes are on rifles and how that is affecting the shooters who are also using these range facilities.

I would love to see suppressors become more available (i.e. cheaper) in the USA for this very reason.

trboat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:08 am The military is finding that blast damage is occurring in teams training with high power rifle.
At this juncture it is simply not known where the threshold lies for traumatic brain injury caused by weapons muzzle blast wave forms.

The firearms community is pretty much “just grow a pair- rifles are loud”.

Note that the new rifle under development for the Army will come equipped with a suppressor as standard. And that the Marines are already starting to issue suppressors.

If information is correct, it looks like the feds just banned Russian ammo from import into the USA.
Since the favorite blasting ammo of the AK crowd, and quite a bit of the AR crowd, is steel case Tula, Red Army, etc., maybe this will slow them down a bit, not to mention cut down on the range litter.

Definitely use better earplugs - and make sure you're using the earplugs correctly! If they're foamies, make sure you roll them up really tight, and stuff them wayyy up into your ear before they expand. I see so many people using earplugs incorrectly. You can get away with it for air rifle or 22lr, you cannot get away with it for intermediate rifle cartridges. And yes, plugs + muffs next to shorty braked ARs is a must. I use Westone solid earplugs, custom molded. Very good isolation. If I'm near a braked AR, I put 3M earmuffs on top.

So I shoot high power xtc, but we use 20" barrels with no muzzle device - brakes aren't allowed (sadly neither are cans). So it's louder than a 22, but it's not actually that loud. On an open field you only need plugs, no muffs. But it does mean during practice I'm near shorty ARs with muzzle brakes pretty often. One solution is to make slightly disparaging comments about how their shooting ability off the bench is worse than your shooting while standing. Sometimes that at least makes them slow down and try to actually aim.

For me it's actually decent practice, because you can't let the occasional gas blast disrupt you during high power competition.

I have a special hatred for 8" braked 50beo ARs.

I have a rifle setup in 223 for service rifle as well.
Not particularly loud.

My hearing protection was the gear I use for that-
Pro Ears Gold and 3m plugs.

Moy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:10 pm Definitely use better earplugs - and make sure you're using the earplugs correctly! If they're foamies, make sure you roll them up really tight, and stuff them wayyy up into your ear before they expand. I see so many people using earplugs incorrectly.

Agreed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=einGTLfVxOE

6string wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:49 pm If information is correct, it looks like the feds just banned Russian ammo from import into the USA.
Since the favorite blasting ammo of the AK crowd, and quite a bit of the AR crowd, is steel case Tula, Red Army, etc., maybe this will slow them down a bit, not to mention cut down on the range litter.

Careful what you wish for. Today it's Wolf and Tula, tomorrow its Eley and Lapua...

As a service rifle instructor for the past several decades I understand these complaints. The hearing in my left ear suffers the most, based on my preferred position to observe operation of the rifle by the person training. I use 3M Ultrafit plugs underneath a good set of 30db, or better, earmuffs. The noise canceling/electronic muffs are almost worthless, from my viewpoint. I also agree with crankythunder that it is the constant, concussive force, of high-power shooting that is the most damaging.

If you have to be exposed, and can control the exposure time, step back from it for about the same amount of time that you were exposed. It seems to work, from what I can tell, and from what those who work for me report.

Remember, range safety officers are not just there to protect the shooter, they must also protect each other.

There was a guy at a range who thought he was going to shoot benchrest rifle over my head, the benches being behind the normal firing points, benchrest not normally happening at the same time as prone. I don't know how loud it would have been but I set him straight.

For muzzle-brakes I don't know what you can do apart from move away.

Our club has two range locations in the Houston area. The one I shoot at for smallbore and air rifle silhouette only allows smallbore and air rifles on the silhouette range and pistols on the separate bullseye range and pistol bays about 100-150 yards away.

Whenever that range gets flooded out I have to go down to the other range where the AR and AK guys love to set up on the 25 and 50 yard benches and blast away. I'm always reminded how good we've got it at the silhouette range to not have to deal with that concussive blasting all the time.

Green_Canoe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:30 am Careful what you wish for. Today it's Wolf and Tula, tomorrow its Eley and Lapua...

Hey I want the CM-2s imported again. I love 'em for the jr club. They eat CCI & STD-Plus just fine