TargetTalk

I’m wanting advice on a 41 vs Victor. Of course the concern with Victor is parts etc. I’m assuming there are gunsmiths that can work on either..... Thoughts are appreciated!

Thank you,

Ted P

I have both, they both have their plusses and minuses -
Model 41
Magazines are cheep and easy to find
Picky on ammo, CCI standard seams to work the best, does not like agula, eley or SK
Had to fiddle with the spring to get it to run reliably (failures to extract on both the 7 inch stock barrel and the Clark replacement)
HS Victor
Magazines are tricky and need to be tweaked (unless you buy factory off ebay - look for numbered scale, thicket ears and a slight flat spot on one side)
Will eat just about any ammo
Trigger is better
Have large palms so gun "fits" better in the hand
Parts mostly limited through - https://interarmstx.com/

Why a Victor specifically? The full-length rib could be an obstacle to an empty case which made ejection less reliable than it was on the Citation and Trophy.

Be very aware of the age of any HS pistol you look at. The Hamden (earliest) production was the best. There was a noticeable decline in quality when they relocated to East Hartford. I suspect it was related to cost-saving and sloppier tolerances. Avoid any late production pistols with SH serial numbers. When I shot a lot of Bullseye and bought / sold many pistols, guys used to say they knew what the SH stood for. You'll be able to figure it out. If you can't, don't worry. You won't notice the difference.

The same comments about age also apply to the 41 - just very much less dramatic. Over time, S&W has replaced highly skilled (and highly paid) pistolsmiths with computers. 40-something years ago, I toured their Springfield factory. It's impossible to forget the little area where you could watch their best smiths make sure Model 41s and 52s were perfect. It may just be imagination, but I really believe a Model 41 from that period is a breed apart

I have a Hamden made Victor and a 70s Model 41. I bought a Magazine Tool on Amazon to adjust my after market Victor Magazines since they need to be right as the guy does not have a feed ramp. I agree that it eats a better variety of ammo brands than the model 41 does.

Bob

"I agree that it eats a better variety of ammo brands than the model 41 does."

I'm sorry, but I find these statements a bit ridiculous when it comes to target arms. If your pistol likes a particular brand of ammo, buy a case (or 2) of it and stop dicking around. If a Model 41 likes CCI-SV, shoot CCI-SV and don't worry about Eley or any others.

When I bought my first Pardini from Don Nygord, he made it clear that RWS was the pistol's preferred ammo. Bullseye shooters are notorious penny-pinchers, and I could have saved a few bucks by trying others. But what would have been the point?

I have to admit those CCI 100-round plastic boxes are pretty cool. They're perfect for a 900 match... unless you plan on a lot of alibis.

Not talking about accuracy. Most people that own Model 41s will report that the gun functions better with one ammo over another. In most cases that I have seen, this has been CCI Standard Velocity. Not about cost for me. I have tried Tenex, Lapua and other high end Pistol Match ammo. My Victor will feed it all consistently but not the 41.

rkittine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:04 pm Not talking about accuracy. Most people that own Model 41s will report that the gun functions better with one ammo over another. In most cases that I have seen, this has been CCI Standard Velocity. Not about cost for me. I have tried Tenex, Lapua and other high end Pistol Match ammo. My Victor will feed it all consistently but not the 41.

Don't make it more complicated than it is. If it isn't about the score, and we know it isn't because any decent pistol/ammo combination will outperform the shooter. And if you know what works, which you do, trying a bunch of other things amounts to what my 10th-grade History teacher less-than-delicately referred to as "mental masturbation."

PS: If you shoot Master or High Master, please ignore the preceding because you CAN buy points.

My Victor has a much nicer trigger than my 41. They both have a magazine or two that will feed everything. Not every magazine is perfect with everything. My 41 eats most everything with a 7 3/8 barrel installed. The 5 1/2 is pickier. A broken Victor may stay that way until you find the right part, but I haven't broken a part on either one. The 41 has to have at least 25K on it by now.

While I prefer the feel of the Victor, I shoot the 41 with the long barrel installed, as good or better that the Victor.

Are you serious about competition or simply want to "plink" at targets. If you're serious you have 2 choices, PARDINI or FWB 93. Save your money and get one of these.

And btw Don said the same thing to me years ago re the RWS. It was cheap, dirty and reliable.

ArTee wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:52 pm Are you serious about competition or simply want to "plink" at targets. If you're serious you have 2 choices, PARDINI or FWB 93. Save your money and get one of these.

And btw Don said the same thing to me years ago re the RWS. It was cheap, dirty and reliable.

You can't mean this. Shooters who are serious can achieve High Master scores without spending the money for a Pardini or FWB. A top shelf = top price pistol may make the road easier, but it's there for anybody with the basic skills who's willing to put in the time & effort.

And as long as you're spending other people's money, why not include Walther GSP, Hämmerli 208 (or some of its lesser-price cousins), and several others?

Oh, by the way, RWS Target was never "cheap." It was over 50% more expensive than CCI or (ugh!) Reminton and Winchester. I'll give you that it was a lot less than R50 or Tenex.

I had a few of the others you mentioned, but the top 2 in order of my opinion, Pardini and FWB93. I played "gun of the month club" but stuck with my Pardini. RWS was very cheap in the 1990's and CCI was a waste of money. The RWS worked end of story! THE FWB was a bit particular re ammo and a very clean chamber.

Puh-leeze! Some of the top shooters at my club back then used CCI-SV in their Model 41s and even Rugers. It was hardly a waste of money for them.

I was the first to show up there with a Pardini in 1991 or 1992, and my scores immediately jumped. But looking back, I understand that it was more due to the electronic sight, probably A LOT more. I'm sure I could have got the same result if I had bought the Aimpoint and mounted it on the S&W that I had been shooting.

I'll back William on this one. Back in the day, I did all kinds of serious testing. I found it was the lot that mattered and getting some of the good ammo was almost impossible. I finally said, "F this!" and tried the CCI Standard in my M41 and TOZ Free Pistol. It was good enough.

The most important things are, how does it feel? How does it balance for you? For many decades I used a 41. Later with a heavy 5.5” Clark barrel and ultra-dot. I was steadier with a muzzle heavy pistol. Now that I’m pushing 60 I can’t hold my 41 anymore. After trying several options, I decided that I like the balance and trigger of the AW93 the best. So much so I bought two. One for irons and the other for a dot. Handle as many target guns as you can. Consider the availability of different size, style and can’t of grips. Are you using a dot? What’s available for mounts? Bottom line is what can you shoot the best?
By the way my scores went up from an 820’s average to 840’s average going from my 41 to a AW93. Not that it was a better pistol, it has more to do with how it fits me, and where I am in my life right now. Also don’t limit yourself to just those two choices. Try as many as you can, the most expensive is not always the best fit.

I shot in a pistol league for many years and owned many S&W41s and High Standards and perfered the HS. I was also luck to have a friend who was very knowlegable with HS and taught me alot about repairing and adjusting them. His name was Jim Barta. High Standards in my opinion has a nicer trigger and seemed more accurate to me. You do have to examine one pretty carefully before buying one of then as they can have cracked frames from people shooting high velocity ammo in them. They were not designed for it. Not sure about using it in S&W41s

Didn't a company buy the High Standard Rights and is now supplying parts and service?

I bought my S&W41 in the early eighties. I've had to buy an occasional part for it ...just pick up the phone to S&W.

I was having jamming problems with it (didn't realize it had a broken extractor). I had a Red Dot on it, so I sawed off the rear sight extension and filed it flush with the breech (see Clark barrels). Man, did that ever make clearing the jams easier, but a new extractor solved my problems.

I use it only for Precision now, but I only shoot Free and Air in International.

High Standard of Montana.
www.highstandardofmt.com

If you are thinking of going the High Standard rout, you should really look into the slant grip pistols also. Anything between the 102 through the 104 series were the best they made. For target shooting I think the slant grip is far superior ( boy that could set off a poop storm) to the military grip. That said The Victor is a fine shooter, at least mine is. Good luck…

ArTee wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:52 pm Are you serious about competition or simply want to "plink" at targets. If you're serious you have 2 choices, PARDINI or FWB 93. Save your money and get one of these.

And btw Don said the same thing to me years ago re the RWS. It was cheap, dirty and reliable.

Rimfires I've shot HM scores with...
Browning buckmark 5.5 pro target
Marvel conversion (PR of 890 in practice)
Nelson conversion
Another nelson conversion
Walther gsp
S&W M41
Another gsp
Hamerlli 208s
Another marvel conversion

Ammo I've shot HM scores with...
Federal champion Bulk pack
Federal automatch
Cci sv
Cmp eley bulk
Federal match
Aguilla pistol match
Anguilla SV

Point here isn't to brag, it's to show that its not the arrow, it's the archer...

You don't need a pardini, and in my humble and uneducated opinion, they aren't all thier cracked up to be...