TargetTalk

School me on scope options for rimfire and center fire BE competition. I have read all the reference material on the bullseye encyclopedia site ( http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ ) and came to the conclusion that the ultra dot matchdot II was the best long term investment for the money. However, that info is a bit dated and am wondering what the consensus is nowadays.

1. The red dot reflex type sights like this ( https://www.burrisoptics.com/sights/fas ... fastfire-3 ) Are very popular with action shooters. For BE use, Are the reflex style sights a better choice than the old scope tube type styles such as the Matchdot II?

2. If scope tube style optics are still superior to reflex sights, what are some of the best options available today?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

-Trevor

I can't give you much advice on this subject, since I use a tired old Ultradot with complete satisfaction for Bullseye.

It may not affect you if you don't shoot Olympic style pistol, but those good ol' iron sights work well if you're not on the downward slide into senile decrepitude (and they pack easy if you're walking around).

I have used 1" Ultradot tubes for literally decades with complete satisfaction. Honesty demands that I say my highest rated card has been NRA expert and these days I struggle to meet that standard. However, I've found that, lately, at least, I've been shooting a Burris FastFire III better than my Ultradot. I shoot the Ultradot with an occluder on my weak eye, but I shoot the Burris reflex sight with both eyes open.

I cannot say why my scores are better with the Burris, but they are, to a slight degree.

YMMV,

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

Just a bunch of random thoughts, really. Maybe nothing of use to anyone else. But, I'll share anyways...

The German made "Docter" reflex sight is (was?) very nice. Don Nygord recommended them for Bullseye use.

Keep in mind the many disadvantages of using an optical sight:
-they ruin the balance of your gun, (at least for me).
-if you shoot outdoors, they present a larger surface for wind to be a nuisance.
-one more thing to go wrong.
-if you are in the game to actually improve your skills, rather than chasing prizes, mastery of iron sights will prove elusive.
Do you think you might ever get intersted in International (ISSF) pistol shooting, or CMP Service pistol?
If so, using an optical sight won't help you.

When I was shooting 2700 exclusively, I drank the Koolaid and got some optics. But, there was always something that seemed "fake" about it. When I got serious about CMP service pistol and Int'l free and air, I got rid of the optics. It didn't hurt my scores.
Under other circumstances or for personal preference things might be different.

Is Aimpoint still around? Their original optic sight was made in Sweden and was built like a tank.

Is Aimpoint still around? Their original optic sight was made in Sweden and was built like a tank.

I'll second that, I've been using an Aimpiont Comp for years and it has served me well.
Though I would like to hear some recommendations for reflex sights to shave some weight.
The older I get the heavier my GSP seems to get.

I have about a half dozen Ultra Dots in both 1" and 30mm tubes. I can say without hesitation that I prefer the 1" tubes. All the Ultra Dots are like the old Timex commercial: they take a licking but keep on ticking.

I do have an Aimpoint Micro on a SBR AR 15. It is a tremendous sight. I would put one on a Bullseye gun if they didn't cost so much. Given the cost it will remain on the AR 15.

Finally, even though I have old eyesight, shooting open sight air pistols in 10M competition has been a hoot. I can align the sights, acquire the sight picture, and sometimes bring the trigger straight back without disturbing the sight picture. I mention this because it inspired me to shoot a fall indoor 900 rimfire league with open sights. I did very well - not as well as with a dot, but much better than I expected.

The bottom line is you can't go wrong with the trusty Ultra Dot.

Mike

I have several Ultra Dots (2 one inch, 2 30 MM) and all except one have been fine. I did have one go haywire on me during a match one time. All of a sudden it started shooting out the top in the 7 and 8 ring. It was at the end of SF so I changed to my open sight gun to complete the match. I sent it back to be fixed and it was returned to me with external damage. I sent that one back and they could not explain what caused the damage but they sold me a display model at a discounted price. Ever since I keep an extra one in my shooting box that has rings on it and has been sighted in. When remounted it shoots close to zero, perhaps needing a couple clicks to bring it in. One thing I do like about the Match Dot that I have on my 45 is the changeable dot size. At 25 yards I like either going to a brighter or one step bigger dot. That is just my choice. I also have an Aimpoint 9000SC (4 MOA) It is very clear, is a true 1X view, has a nice round dot and the glass has better coatings. It is also heavier, which is more of an issue now than it used to be. If I have to complain about it, I can only say that the first 4 or 5 brightness settings are useless, for me anyway, and there is a setting where it seems a tiny too dim and the next setting seems a tiny too bright, but you just adapt. It is more expensive but you get more too. I have no experience with the smaller Aimpoints but have no doubt about the quality of this brand. At the same time, I still enjoy using my Ultra Dots but like to have an extra since I got burned once.

I’ve used various Ultradots over the years and still have a 1” on a backup gun.I had an Ultradot die during a match on me - not the battery, something fell apart inside. It was weird, just mounted on a .22 so it must’ve been a bad unit. Ultradot West fixed it but it was a bummer anyway. I’ll say they go through batteries like crazy if you ever forget to turn it off.

My main bullseye pistol has an Aimpoint Micro now and I never bother to turn it off, it’s been on for a couple of years now and the battery is fine.

I have several Matchdot II's and like them. Bear in mind that BE is usually shot at 25 and 50 yds and sight adjustments are almost always required for this change. Some of the dots, particularly the reflex types, are not designed with frequent, repeatable sight changes in mind.

Dr.Don wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:01 am I have several Matchdot II's and like them. Bear in mind that BE is usually shot at 25 and 50 yds and sight adjustments are almost always required for this change. Some of the dots, particularly the reflex types, are not designed with frequent, repeatable sight changes in mind.

Excellent point about the repeatability/ tracking of the reflex sights. I did not realize that would be an issue

I have a reflex sight (Leopold Delta Point) but have not mounted it yet. Therefore I am not familiar with the adjustment characteristics of it. My plan is to try it on my Marvel conversion which should not be a problem because I make no sight changes from 50 to 25. That is interesting information and it will be interesting to see how the adjustments work.

For decades I have shot my S&W Model 41 with a 1" Ultra Dot. Last year I started shooting a steel plate match using a Ruger Mk IV Tactical with a Burris Fast Fire II and a Volquartsen trigger kit in it.

When using the model 41 I shoot with an occluder over my left eye. When using the Ruger I shoot with both eyes open. On a whim, I decided to use the Ruger for a couple of bullseye matches and for reasons that are unclear to me, I'm shooting a few points higher scores with the Ruger.

Therefore, for the near future I plan to shoot the Ruger in my bullseye matches. I normally do not adjust the Ultradot while changing from 50 yards to 25 so I don't plan to do so with the Burris reflex sight.

As an experiment I bought another Burris Fast Fire and put it on my .45 ACP wad gun in place of the Ultra Dot that's been there forever. I will shoot it in an upcoming match to see how it works out. I will take notes on the sight adjustments I need to make and report back later.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

dulcmr-man wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:03 pm For decades I have shot my S&W Model 41 with a 1" Ultra Dot. Last year I started shooting a steel plate match using a Ruger Mk IV Tactical with a Burris Fast Fire II and a Volquartsen trigger kit in it.

When using the model 41 I shoot with an occluder over my left eye. When using the Ruger I shoot with both eyes open. On a whim, I decided to use the Ruger for a couple of bullseye matches and for reasons that are unclear to me, I'm shooting a few points higher scores with the Ruger.

Therefore, for the near future I plan to shoot the Ruger in my bullseye matches. I normally do not adjust the Ultradot while changing from 50 yards to 25 so I don't plan to do so with the Burris reflex sight.

As an experiment I bought another Burris Fast Fire and put it on my .45 ACP wad gun in place of the Ultra Dot that's been there forever. I will shoot it in an upcoming match to see how it works out. I will take notes on the sight adjustments I need to make and report back later.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

I am interested to hear how it works out.