TargetTalk

Greetings all...

I shot competitively back in the college days, but been away from the sport for ... let's just say a while. My primary event was Standard Pistol (*loved* my GSP) with a little dabbling in Rapid Fire, Free, and Air. (Also was a certified instructor in Pistol/Shotgun/Rifle years ago.)

Anyway, I'm looking to re-start, and finding it a little tricky to find the right resources for someone like me -- everything is either at the very beginner "how to try this out" level, geared towards youth programs, or just assumes you already know everything and just need to know where to park.

So any pointers on where/how I might get started training (and hopefully competing) again would be really helpful. Also recommendations for a good "starter intermediate" (?) level air pistol would be appreciated.

I'm in the DC metro area, in case anyone knows specific local resources.

Thanks!

Other than searching the forum for specific topics, the best one-stop place for good info on the International disciplines is this book:

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... s&item=411

It has a lot of basic info, but also goes into a lot of detail on more advanced concepts.

My suggestion would be to look for a club league, nearby to you, where they are of roughly your age and shoot a related discipline. You probably want to avoid a "run and gun" younger bunch, judging from your comments :) Air pistol might be easier, or harder, to find. Maybe a .22-only event, if not?

Just getting out there every week and sharing the experience will get you going again, and if you and they really click, go for the gold!

I have to think there are many opportunities for air pistol matches in your area, with its population density. There is also the monthly online match on this forum.

Setting up a 10M range in your home is easy, and practicing on 5M reduced targets still builds your skills, if that is all you have.

Getting a good air pistol the first time will save you money in the long run, since you will probably want one eventually. FYI, I personally shoot about 7-10 points better with my LP10 than my IZH-46. Not a lot better, but enough to justify owning the Steyr. A quality AP will prepare you for most other disciplines as well, especially FP.

Good luck.

Twelfth Precinct Pistol & Archery club in Harwood Md. might be just what you are looking for. They have twice weekly outdoor Bullseye league, and a indoor air pistol range.
Between Twelfth Precinct, and reading here, I think you are set.....Jim

Thanks for the tips, all! I'll check out Twelfth Precinct... they're on the opposite side of DC, but still reasonably close.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:58 pm Setting up a 10M range in your home is easy, and practicing on 5M reduced targets still builds your skills, if that is all you have.

I was wondering about that, since I don't have the linear space for 10m, but I could manage 5m. Where do you find 5m reduced targets?

Getting a good air pistol the first time will save you money in the long run, since you will probably want one eventually. FYI, I personally shoot about 7-10 points better with my LP10 than my IZH-46. Not a lot better, but enough to justify owning the Steyr. A quality AP will prepare you for most other disciplines as well, especially FP.

I've been browsing a bit to see what the options might be. Does the AP20 PRO fit in the "good enough for a while" category, or is it more a "solid club gun for youths/beginners"?

Thanks again! Looking forward to seeing what's out there locally and getting involved.

I don't see any 5M targets for purchase, but many in download form. While it may not be legal for internet matches, is can sure get you practicing until you get to a 10M range.

Hammerli used to be a great product, now its just a name imo. I have not owned an AP20, but had a Hammerli 480. My guess is that it is a very capable unit, and similar to my 480 that I scored into the 560s with. I sold my 480 when I realized that support for it, like many Umarex products, doesn't last very long. Then I bought a LP1OM. I think I will be able to buy parts for the rest of my shooting career with this model, although I suspect that only o-rings will be needed, as the rest of the gun seems top notch. For me, buying a $900 gun that I may not be able to buy replacement parts for in 10 years is not as good of value as a $1800 gun that will outlast me. Obviously just my personal opinion. I sold my Hammerli for $500, I think I can sell my Steyr for $1200 if need be.

The problem with the 480 was that it was an early design, and things have improved a lot since then. The AP20 is in very wide use by junior programs, and the college I help coach at just bought 26. It's a pretty mature design, and as an entry level PCP pistol with very little competition in its price range, I suspect it will be around for a long time. The AP20 Pro shares the vast majority of the fiddly bits that are likely to need replacing at some point.

That said, with the passing of Larry Carter, I don't know who is doing the US repair work on Hammerlis. We have over twenty 480K's that were converted to use AP40 cylinders by Larry, and several have developed leaks. I suspect it is an easy fix if you have the right tools & know-how, but I haven't found anyone who will tackle the job. I suspect if I send them to Umarex, they will have to go back to Germany.

[/quote]
That said, with the passing of Larry Carter, I don't know who is doing the US repair work on Hammerlis. We have over twenty 480K's that were converted to use AP40 cylinders by Larry, and several have developed leaks. I suspect it is an easy fix if you have the right tools & know-how, but I haven't found anyone who will tackle the job. I suspect if I send them to Umarex, they will have to go back to Germany.
[/quote]

I agree if I had a whole fleet of AP20s to support my shooting team, that the Hammerli would be a great choice for the money. I sent my 480 back to Hammerli Switzerland once, and once to Larry for the AP40 conversion. For the money I invested in the 480, then the AP40 conversion, plus shipping, I could have bought a top of the line air pistol to start with, which tempers my initial comments.The downtime for both the Hammerli repairs was long enough to prompt me to buy the Steyr. In addition to Pilkguns, there are other online sources for Steyr reseal kits. I will be curious if Umarex we even work on your AP40s, and at what cost.

I also bought a Umarex "Walther" sporter air rifle that was discontinued a year later.

A little help.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-Hammer ... Swg2Rfd7U0

Greetings,

"Liquidating". I am not surprised.

Walther sold the Haemmerli name to Umarex. Umarex only lists the X-esse and AP20. The SP-20 appears to be gone. I did contact Umarex for 280 parts and they said no longer available. Not sure if they will accept an older gun for repair.

Walther also removed all the detailed parts lists for the older CP series of Air Pistols. Thus far, they have not responded to my request for where they may be found.

I know of no factory trained Haemmerli mechanics in the USA. Imagine trying to ship your broken gun to Europe with all the ITAR and other snags.

Time to cool down with a fizzy drink.....

Cheers,

Dave

fc60 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:39 pm Greetings,

"Liquidating". I am not surprised.

Walther sold the Haemmerli name to Umarex. Umarex only lists the X-esse and AP20. The SP-20 appears to be gone. I did contact Umarex for 280 parts and they said no longer available. Not sure if they will accept an older gun for repair.

Walther also removed all the detailed parts lists for the older CP series of Air Pistols. Thus far, they have not responded to my request for where they may be found.

I know of no factory trained Haemmerli mechanics in the USA. Imagine trying to ship your broken gun to Europe with all the ITAR and other snags.

Time to cool down with a fizzy drink.....

Cheers,

Dave

Glad I am not the only one that realizes that Hammerli is now only a name to stamp on commodity guns.

Rover wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:06 pm A little help.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-Hammer ... Swg2Rfd7U0

Oh, that's a very nice price. And here I was starting to think about P8X vs EVO 10 vs K12 ...

brent375hh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:37 pm Glad I am not the only one that realizes that Hammerli is now only a name to stamp on commodity guns.

Sad. I think I probably still have a Hämmerli brochure from the late 80s in a box somewhere. They were my aspirational gun for a long time.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:37 pm Glad I am not the only one that realizes that Hammerli is now only a name to stamp on commodity guns.

Sad. I think I probably still have a Hämmerli brochure from the late 80s in a box somewhere. They were my aspirational gun for a long time.
[/quote]

Mine too ! I still have a 150 with a lifetime of spares. They made my favorite target guns back when they were in Switzerland. Its a shame the 1XX and 2XX series are no longer. Too many legendary brands of everything are bought up by big conglomerate companies who quietly & quickly find a way to cheapen the product, but cash in on the name for as long as people still buy the products.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62924

fc60 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:39 pm
Walther sold the Haemmerli name to Umarex.

Hammerli was acquired by Umarex, just was Walther was. However, Walther is a separate company/division inside Umarex group, while Hammerli is now just a brand name for some of the Walther guns.

If you really want to shoot with an air pistol for a stable and many years, then the years-proven choice is the Steyr LP10 (EVO10) with a mechanical trigger or the lighter version LP2 (for seniors). If you want to experience problems and waste time and money, get anything else. Have a good time. Yeah, and one more ... Get a well-fitting grip that someone really shot and hit with. It doesn't matter what the look is.

pbrejsa wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:52 pm or the lighter version LP2 (for seniors).

I hadn't heard this about the LP2 ... why do you say it's for seniors? I'm inching up on Masters age, though not quite there yet.

curtosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:18 am I'm in the DC metro area, in case anyone knows specific local resources.

Check out the Fairfax Rod & Gun Club. They have monthly air and free pistol matches from Oct to March open to the public. Contact info is on their website.

Because I'm senior too. The Steyr LP2 is lighter and better balanced for me. I started with LP2 15 years ago and now I appreciate its good features and advantages again. The LP2 price is only slightly lower than the price of the LP10, but the performance is definitely not. The simpler design but even more reliable than LP10.

pbrejsa wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:20 pm Because I'm senior too. The Steyr LP2 is lighter and better balanced for me. I started with LP2 15 years ago and now I appreciate its good features and advantages again. The LP2 price is only slightly lower than the price of the LP10, but the performance is definitely not. The simpler design but even more reliable than LP10.

Ah, that makes sense. Though I guess it's also a tradeoff between weight (lighter = less fatigue) vs. inertia (heavier = stabler)? Are you shooting the compact? That would be significantly lighter and a different balance. I'd seen somewhere that people recommend starting with a compact.... I guess for the weight/balance? As much as I don't want to admit it, aging is real. :)

Lots of really solid recs for the LP2, for sure! I've also heard great things about the K12 and the P8X (especially their triggers) but they're both as heavy or heavier than the EVO 10.

I must admit the AP20 price is much more in the "let's try it out" range, but I do worry I'd outgrow it, and of course reliability/repair time is an issue.