TargetTalk

A quick story I thought was interesting:

My son just bridged to Boy Scouts from Cub Scouts. My son has been rifle shooting for a couple years now, and can easily complete the 'Rifle Shooting' Merit Badge, but that requires a Merit Badge Counselor to sign off on his work. So I go to our Troop Merit Badge Coordinator to get a name/contact info for a local Counselor (we are in Southern California). He tells me they don't have anyone on the list. On one hand, I'm not surprised, because this is California and an urban area, but on the other, I AM surprised because there are A LOT of people and Scouts in this area.

So I decide to sign up to be a Rifle Shooting Merit Badge Counselor. I fill out the application and turn it in, but I immediately get a message saying I can't, because I'm not an NRA certified Rifle Shooting Coach. So I calmly explain that the rules do not say I need to be one, quoting their rules, by section. The response: "Huh, I guess you're right -- I was told differently -- you're now a Merit Badge Counselor." So that probably explains why I am apparently the ONLY one in our area: the local District wouldn't approve anyone else and didn't bother to look up the rules.

I then went back to our Scoutmaster and let him know I was 'okayed', and he tells me, "Oh, that's great, we have a bunch of Scouts that really want to do that Merit Badge...but also a bunch of parents who DON'T." So we'll see how things go. It sounds like we have quite a few Scouts that don't know they're supposed to be afraid of guns. Maybe we can help educate some parents along the way.

marky-d

YAY
Good for you, and wish you the best.

Parents who do not like guns, but then think nothing of driving bothers me. A bad example is the aptly named "California stop." It is so bad that I expect the other driver to NOT stop at the stop sign, and too many don't stop. And if mom and dad don't stop, what does that teach the kid. argh

You should at a minimum be a NRA Certified Rifle Instructor.
Or have CMP Rifle Instructor Ratings.

You have to know what you are talking about.
Not just what it says in the BSA Rifle Merit Badge Book.

In my case, I am not an NRA Instructor, but my son participates in a program WITH NRA Instructors. I agree that it is a reasonable requirement that instructors be certified, but I am not an instructor, I'm just signing off that they know their stuff -- big difference.

marky-d

The Guide To Safe Scouting says you must have NRA or BSA Rifle Instructor certification. The BSA Shooting Sports book has several requirements. You must have 1 certified instructor and 1 certified RSO for every 8 scouts on the firing line. The instructor and RSO can not be the same person even if there is only one scout.

Not my rules but straight from the Guide to Safe Scouting and BSA Shooting Sports Guide which are available online. Try www.scouting.org or perhaps your councils website. Also, contact Mark Beli at NRA. He is or was the NRA BSA liaison.

Sam Richardson
Greater Alabama Council
Rifle Merit Badge Counselor

Prove it.
This is one thing I love about Scouting: everyone makes very definitive claims about what you can or can't do, usually because someone once told them that's a rule, or maybe a particular Council has a rule that they think applies to everyone.

As I said already, yes, handling of firearms and ammunition, and shooting, must be overseen by certified personnel, but the Merit Badge Counselor DOES NOT.

This is straight from the Guide to Advancement, section 7.0.1.1, regarding Merit Badge Counselors:
"Rifle Shooting. The merit badge counselor is responsible for ensuring that all instruction or other activities involving any handling of firearms or live ammunition is consistent with state and federal law and supervised by a certified BSA National Camping School (NCS) shooting sports director, or National Rifle Association (NRA) Rifle Shooting Instructor or Coach. Instruction or other activities involving handling muzzleloaders must be supervised by an NCS shooting sports director or NRA/National Muzzleloader Rifle Association (NMLRA)-certified muzzleloader firearms instructor. Shooting must be supervised by an NRA certified Range Safety Officer (RSO). If instruction and shooting are to occur at the same time, both the RSO and qualified instructor must be present. The supervisor and instructor may not be the same person. Note that commercial shooting ranges may provide RSOs."

marky-d

Ok, so perhaps you can be a rifle merit badge counselor, but, from what I said above and what you posted, you can't teach anything and you can't supervise shooting activity unless you have the required certification. And, from what I read, you can't sign off on anything that wasn't taught by an certified instructor and supervised by a certified RSO.
So, it still boils down to the scouts can not earn the merit badge without the required certified people.

100% true.

As I stated before, "In my case, I am not an NRA Instructor, but my son participates in a program WITH NRA Instructors."
My issue was that my son (and essentially everyone in this area, apparently) was able to do the work and complete the requirements (plenty of NRA certified folks), but had no way to get 'recognition' for it (no Merit badge Counselors). Presumably because none of the NRA certified instructors are involved with Scouts, and the Scouters that tried to become Counselors were being turned away because they were told they had to be NRA certified.

marky-d

You're both correct. There is the MB Councilor who signs off on the Merit Badge, then there is the NRA trained instructor who supervises the shooting portion of the MB.

► But earning the Merit Badge consists of 2 separate portions: Shooting and Cleaning the gun. Since the gun isn't fired during cleaning, the MB Councilor can also head up that portion of the MB requirements.



We do it right in Georgia !!

As explained to me directly from Mark Belli, the NRA coordinator for the BSA shooting sports.
About 1/2 of the merit badge can be taught without a firearm. This would substitute posters as a training aid instead of using the rifle. Also basic gun safety and the conservation portion could be taught without a firearm.
Any part that involves shooting or handling of a firearm must be done by by an NRA rifle instructor (for rifle MB) or shotgun instructor (for shotgun MB).

I have been a MB counselor for the Rifle Shooting merit badge since 2010. I went through both the NRA's RSO training and Certified Rifle Instructor courses to qualify to complete the rifle shooting qualification that must be done on a range. We are lucky to have several other Dad's that have gone through either rifle or shotgun training and they always help on the firing line.
I usually teach the lecture portion during troop meetings and use a power point presentation as well as the NRA training posters. I also order "Basic Rifle Shooting Course" book from the NRA for each Scout in the class. I encourage the Scouts to let any brothers or sisters at home review the book, with the hope that they will learn at least basic firearm safety as well.
I like to bring my small bore rifle to the range during qualification to both illustrate what aperture sights looks like and to help them qualify for the MB. It's a lot of fun doing this course and the Scouts love shooting.
Jon

We had some stragglers one year that really needed to finish the shooting portion for their rank advancement. With the Scout Master's permission we set up a 10M range in a side room, and used a precision PCP target gun and pellet trap during the meeting. Everyone that needed it got their shooting portion finished that evening.

Later my son told me that pellet guns were NOT the way to do it. I argued for the ease of testing, small range size, ability to do it during a meeting, reduced noise, enhanced safety, etc, etc. But his reply shocked me.

He said the one thing boys like most about shooting was the "bragging rights". When a Scout shoots a .22 rifle he walks away with a pocket full of spent cases. When he shoots a pellet gun he gets nothing.

I had never thought about it from the boy's perspective !! We never used pellet guns again !

Funny, I was going through the same train of thought recently.

Unfortunately, the 22LR rifle program my son was involved in appears to have 'dissolved' (hopefully temporarily, but I don't think I should hold my breath), so suddenly I am without an NRA Rifle Instructor AND an RSO and range at which to work on the marksmanship portion. I've signed up for the Rifle Instructor class, so that part will be remedied in December.

As for the marksmanship portion, I have easy access to a 10m air rifle range, so considered using that, but I was concerned the Scouts would be disappointed to not use a 'real' rifle -- it sounds like my fears are not unfounded! I still may try to do both. Scouts that are just interested in earning the MB can do the air rifle, but those that are really engaged can put in some extra effort to do the 22LR.

These things are never easy...

marky-d

marky-d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:05 am Scouts that are just interested in earning the MB can do the air rifle, but those that are really engaged can put in some extra effort to do the 22LR.

My older son was focused on Eagle from the time he was a Tiger. The younger one was focused only on shooting. He earned the RSMB with BB, pellet, .22 rifle, and black powder.... a total of 6 or 7 times. Once he discovered you could go to summer camp and take 3 classes of rifle shooting it was all over !!

One summer the wife and I insisted that he try something different. He opted for Shotgun MB. We didn't own a shotgun and he had never picked one up. He tied the Camp Bucktom's record (44 of 50) on his second run. After that we simply threw up our hands !!




So I think you offer a variety because you never know what will appeal to a kid. And let's face it, pellets and BBs have a place because not every child is enthralled with the report from a firearm. The entire object of Merit Badges is to expose the kids to something new; something they don't see at home. Hopefully they'll get wrapped up in hiking, or photography, or shooting, or baking.... any new hobby. I'm convinced kids only deal with the darker side of life out of shear boredom.

Strangely, for my younger son it was our work together on maintaining the Troop's webpage that "stuck". (That's where his nickname Webmonkey originated.) 20 years on and he's an IT professional, college degree, happily married, with a very good job.

The downside is this.... Good job leads to a bigger, second home. I thought, "moving an IT professional will be easy". One bed, one computer, one box of books, one suitcase with all his clothes. With the washer, dryer and frig it equaled one U-Haul truck load. Easy !

That was before we went downstairs.... Gun safe, 20 rifles and shotguns, five handguns, two 8-ft long reloading benches, three reloading machines, components, brass, brass and more brass. 3 U-Haul truck loads and several weeks later and we're still moving shooting supplies !!

☺

Interesting. I'm involved with a program to train a bunch of Muzzle-Loading Instructors, partly to support Scout programs. They're working up a system to ship loaner guns and bullets (which is the big headache). We'll have to come up with something the kids can take with them...signed targets, perhaps.