TargetTalk

Is it possible shoot a center of mass (center hold) with a hammerli X-esse?

I would like to try try this but can't with my my smith 41. It,s rear sight lacks adjustment range for shooting COM. My eyes can only shot 6 o'clock with it.

Thanks,

Glenn

why not mill or file the rear sight notch? Or thinner front sight?

Christopher Miceli wrote:why not mill or file the rear sight notch? Or thinner front sight?

Use a mill file to lower the rear sight height, and then a 3/16" chain saw file to hog out a u-notch.

Even YOU can do it.

Christopher Miceli wrote:why not mill or file the rear sight notch? Or thinner front sight?

Christopher - good suggestion on filing down the rear sight on the M41. I'm a bit hesitant doing that - don't want to ruin it.

I don't understand a thinner front sight. Since the gun shoots higher than my point of aim, i believe a higher front sight will lower my muzzle and point of impact.

Thanks,

Glenn

Rover wrote:

Christopher Miceli wrote:why not mill or file the rear sight notch? Or thinner front sight?

Use a mill file to lower the rear sight height, and then a 3/16" chain saw file to hog out a u-notch.

Even YOU can do it.

Rover - thanks. it is elevation that is my problem (Gun shoots higher than my point of aim even with rear sight lowered as far as possible). the amount of light on each side of front sight when centered in the rear notch is good for me.

Glenn

DRB3224 wrote:Is it possible shoot a center of mass (center hold) with a hammerli X-esse?

I would like to try try this but can't with my my smith 41. It,s rear sight lacks adjustment range for shooting COM. My eyes can only shot 6 o'clock with it.

Thanks,

Glenn

If you are shooting 6 o.clock hold now, then your shots are high (above point of aim),
To lower your shots to point of aim, wind the rear sight down, (if this bottoms then fit a taller foresight).
Check Hammerli parts list
Replacement Foresights are available 1 or 2 mm higher.
Item Part No Size
24 1.333.170 pivoted front sight 3.2/3.6/4.0 +1mm
24 1.333.180 pivoted front sight 3.2/3.6/4.0 +2mm
24 1.333.190 pivoted front sight 3.8/4.4/4.7 +1mm

sorry must of misread the post think it was an amount of white spacing issue. a rear sight leaf is cheaper than a new gun.

David M wrote:

DRB3224 wrote:Is it possible shoot a center of mass (center hold) with a hammerli X-esse?

I would like to try try this but can't with my my smith 41. It,s rear sight lacks adjustment range for shooting COM. My eyes can only shot 6 o'clock with it.

Thanks,

Glenn

... "To lower your shots to point of aim, wind the rear sight down, (if this bottoms then fit a taller foresight)." ....

David - Yes, my M41 rear sight is all the way down - no more adjustment to move point of impact lower.

The front sight looks like it is integral to the barrel. Or have i missed something and it is possible to put a taller front sight on it?

Thanks for your help!

Glenn

Read your manual and look at the parts list.
The foresight is intrchangable.
https://www.haemmerli.info/en/products/ ... -esse.html

David M wrote:Read your manual and look at the parts list.
The foresight is intrchangable.
https://www.haemmerli.info/en/products/ ... -esse.html

My apologies for confusion about my poorly written original post. I did not own a Hammerli X-esse.

Because I'm unable to shoot a center of mass hold with the S&W M41, i am considering other pistols.

Looking at the Hammerli since it fits in my budget, i am asking if a current hammerli owner can shoot a center hold with it?

Glenn

Are you REALLY thinking of buying another pistol over something you can fix yourself in about thirty seconds?

I had this issue before. You can cure it in under an hour by adding a small dab of jb weld to the sight, sand it to shape and hit it with flat black paint.... If youre afraid of gluing the gun, add solder to it file it and make it black......

DRB3224 wrote:Is it possible shoot a center of mass (center hold) with a hammerli X-esse?

I would like to try try this but can't with my my smith 41. It,s rear sight lacks adjustment range for shooting COM. My eyes can only shot 6 o'clock with it.

Thanks,

Glenn

I had to get a taller front sight from Walther USA to shoot center hold with my Hammerli X-esse Sport. I think my 1978 vintage S&W M41 5.5 barrel could barely be center hold with the sight cranked all the way down. My FWB AW93 needed a taller front sight for center hold also.

For your S&W M41 you could also first check about replacement rear sight leafs or sights and then decide to file the top of the rear sight leaf and notch lower. There are several cold blueing solutions to hide your work afterwards.

I think I finally put my S&W M41 and M14 off to the side until I could find someone to weld up the front sight some.

DRB3224 wrote: Since the gun shoots higher than my point of aim, i believe a higher front sight will lower my muzzle and point of impact.

Thanks,

Glenn

Glenn,

The thinking in the quote above is correct. spektr has recommended a simple and workable solution to your problem. Just how much

higher does the front sight need to be raised so that a center of mass hold can be utilized? Use the following formula:

Required Height Increase = (Sight Radius x Impact Error) / Target Distance

For example:

Sight Radius (Distance Between The Sights) = 8"

Impact Error (Amount Impact Is Above Point-Of-Aim) = 3"

Target Distance (25 Yards) = 900"

Required Height Increase = (8" x 3") / 900" which comes out to 0.027".

The above is based on the assumption that the rear sight is still in the fully lowered position. If ever necessary, you would be unable

to lower the impact any further at this point as no additional sight adjustment would be available. Therefore, it might be better to use

a value of 4" in the above formula. Recalculating with this measurement, the front sight would have to be built up a total of 0.036"

higher than it currently is. By doing this, your Model 41 would be shooting a bit lower than center of mass. This is acceptable because

the bottomed out rear sight could then be raised the small amount needed to get the impact at the desired location on the target.

Spektr, Sa-tevo, and Mr Alexander - thanks very much for the thought you gave to my question. I appreciate your assistance.

Spektr - Thanks for mentioning the jbweld and solder. Along those lines I have an idea on a semi-permanent way to raise the front sight. If shooting COM is what I need to shoot in the long run, I'll get some jbweld since it seems to be a longer lasting way to raise top of the front sight.

Sa-tevo - like you I thought about having the front sight welded to increase the height. Since this is a 'test' to see if shooting COM will be good for me, I would like to try something that is not permanent like welding.

Mr Alexander - thanks for explaining the math to calculate the amount of additional thickness necessary. From Spektr's and Sa-tevo's posts I have a couple ideas on how to increase the the front sight height - use water proof glue to attach black construction paper to the top of the sight, OR, layers of black paint. From your post I believe .04" is about the increase I'll need; I think I can apply several layers to get that thickness. If COM works, I'll do a longer lasting modification with jbweld and cold blue.

Thanks to all three of you for your help with my question.


Glenn

Sa-tevo wrote: For your S&W M41 you could also first check about replacement rear sight leafs or sights and then decide to file the top of the rear sight leaf and notch lower.

Glenn,

With all due respect to Sa-tevo, another issue may arise if the solution proposed above is attempted. Please note that I am not an

engineer or a gunsmith. With that said, filing the top of the rear sight leaf will definitely lower the point-of-impact. However, by filing

the notch lower, it is entirely possible that part of the slide would now be visible in your sight picture. The part being referred to is the

area immediately below the front sight. To illustrate this, think of a handgun equipped with iron sights that is correctly sighted in for

you. Imagine what the sight picture would look like if the front sight on this pistol was then remachined so that its total height above

the slide was now only 1/32". Would you still be able to align the top of this modified sight with the top of the rear sight? Yes, but

what would be seen? A front blade that is a very short stub along with a view of the front end of the slide that is under it. Will this

happen with any handgun's sight combination if Sa-tevo's suggestion is followed? I don't know for sure; it really will depend on the

dimensions of the sights involved. This all is something to be taken into consideration.


If any of the previously proposed remedies should fail for one reason or another, there is one more permanent step that could be

taken. It would be way less costly than buying a new Hammerli X-esse. The front sight blade and the base that it is attached to

are both integral with the pistol's barrel. First, have a gunsmith machine the entire blade away. Then have a dovetail sight cut

machined into the base. A dovetail front sight could now be installed into place using a sight pusher. Brownells has a wide

selection of the type of sights that could be used. Click on: https://www.brownells.com/search/index. ... &ksubmit=y

Notice the sight at the far right side in the second row. This blank from MGW could be machined to the height, width, and shape

that would be the best for you. Good luck with your project. Do let us know how things turn out. Glad to have been of some help.

Perhaps it would help to know that I did not file down the rear sight on any of my S&W revolvers or my M41 as S&W revolver rear sight blades don't have a lot of material to remove and the notch would be shallow. On the M41 my rear sight is a coin adjusted sight like a M52 and I couldn't locate replacement parts easily if I didn't like it after whacking off 1 or 2mm of material (it's a good sized sight blade, unlike the revolvers). Since rear sights (and other parts) changed over the years that M41 were produced you may have a different rear sight than my pistol. Building up the front sight with JB Weld epoxy is a good idea to verify the concept and I have had good experience working with it on other projects. 1 to 2 mm is about right to get the rear sight usable for range of adjustment for center hold.

Someday I'd like to get my S&W revolvers and M41 able to shoot center hold by welding the front sight up but so far the pistolsmiths who can do it require shipping a firearm and that is costly. I've gotten used to having some pistols shoot sub-six, some six o'clock and some center hold.

image linked from another website

Hi. I guess I am missing something. Why would you want to shoot a center hold. The guns you are talking about are target guns, not tactical guns. They are made to shoot with a six o'clock hold. Perhaps you need to look for a gun that is made for tactical shooting if that is what you want.

samg wrote:Hi. I guess I am missing something. Why would you want to shoot a center hold. The guns you are talking about are target guns, not tactical guns. They are made to shoot with a six o'clock hold. Perhaps you need to look for a gun that is made for tactical shooting if that is what you want.

Center hold works good for duel, sub-6 for precision! I always like the idea behind the Korn-Optik Adlerauge Klappkorn SNAP, a pistol-front sight adjustable in two heights (8/10 mm) for duel and precision without tool. The two different heights can be fixed by simply folding down. https://www.kornoptikadlerauge.de/index ... lenkorn-en




I think most of the Pardini assault weapons (the ones with the magazine forward of the trigger) are set up for center hold.

samg wrote:Hi. I guess I am missing something. Why would you want to shoot a center hold. The guns you are talking about are target guns, not tactical guns. They are made to shoot with a six o'clock hold. Perhaps you need to look for a gun that is made for tactical shooting if that is what you want.

samg,

Center or six o'clock hold? Great scores have been achieved using either method. It all depends on one's personal preference.