TargetTalk

Just a question out of curiosity, I've noticed here and there ads for hand pumps for PCP gear and was wondering how long it takes to pump up the cylinder to the necessary charge? Seems as though you may be at it for awhile.......dunno though.

That's OK. They are just trying to tone up their flabby asses enough to be able to operate a single stroke pneumatic.

Rover wrote:That's OK. They are just trying to tone up their flabby asses enough to be able to operate a single stroke pneumatic.

Ha! Good one....

:)

Rover wrote:That's OK. They are just trying to tone up their flabby asses enough to be able to operate a single stroke pneumatic.

You pump your SSP with your ass??? No wonder I'm having such a hard time.

Dennis in the PRK

Ignore the man behind the curtain, Dorothy. I ride 50+ miles a day on my bicycle (after work) when not playing ice hockey- adult B-league games/practices (those who have played professional/or college hockey- just college here.) I choose a PCP and a Hill pump because it suits me.

Our Hill pump requires roughly 60-90 strokes for a complete fill on a 200 BAR cylinder. Complete 20-30 strokes, and rest for several minutes so the pump does not heat up and cause condensation. The longer you rest the more the air will escape; based on the way you have the pump fittings secured and the condition of the pump. Use silicon lubricant on the pump sparingly, as per Hill instructions. Too much, and it will clog the pump. We have considered buying a dive tank many times and have chosen not to do it. Cost is not a factor in our decision, as we could purchase the tank anytime. We are, simply, happy with the Hill pump.

COYS!
m1963

m1963 wrote:Greetings-
Our Hill pump requires roughly 60-90 strokes for a complete fill on a 200 BAR cylinder. Complete 20-30 strokes, and rest for several minutes so the pump does not heat up and cause condensation. The longer you rest the more the air will escape; based on the way you have the pump fittings secured and the condition of the pump. Use silicon lubricant on the pump sparingly, as per Hill instructions. Too much, and it will clog the pump. We have considered buying a dive tank many times and have chosen not to do it. Cost is not a factor in our decision, as we could purchase the tank anytime. We are, simply, happy with the Hill pump.

COYS!
m1963

Hard to phrase the question without sounding dirty, but I'm assuming then each stroke of the pump gets progressively harder then as the cylinder fills. Then, how many shots per fill? Just curious.

Yes gets very tough towards the end. Whether you get to 200 bar depends on your strength

No of shots depends on the pistol. 100. 120 maybe.
Remember the disadvantages of a pump, like possibility of moisture corroding the aluminium and over pressure damage near the end of pumping. Scuba every time for me.

m1963 wrote:Greetings-

Ignore the man behind the curtain, Dorothy. I ride 50+ miles a day on my bicycle (after work) when not playing ice hockey- adult B-league games/practices (those who have played professional/or college hockey- just college here.) I choose a PCP and a Hill pump because it suits me.

Our Hill pump requires roughly 60-90 strokes for a complete fill on a 200 BAR cylinder. Complete 20-30 strokes, and rest for several minutes so the pump does not heat up and cause condensation. The longer you rest the more the air will escape mutuelles TNS; based on the way you have the pump fittings secured and the condition of the pump. Use silicon lubricant on the pump sparingly, as per Hill instructions. Too much, and it will clog the pump. We have considered buying a dive tank many times and have chosen not to do it. Cost is not a factor in our decision, as we could purchase the tank anytime. We are, simply, happy with the Hill pump.

COYS!
m1963

Well, it's really a piece of advice that has fallen. Otherwise, we can have some tutorials illustrating the process.

Re: the scuba tank method and moisture in the pistol.

Are you convinced that whoever fills the scuba tank dehydrates the air before hand?

dtdtdtdt wrote: Are you convinced that whoever fills the scuba tank dehydrates the air before hand?

Are you convinced that the driver of the oncoming car will not veer across the centre line and kill you? There are no certainties in life, but you can choose the less risky options.

A friend of mine who used to repair leaking airgun cylinders at a gunshop, told me that the majority of the leaking ones belonged to shooters who filled with a hand pump. BTW, I'm not sure about all parts of the world, but I think SCUBA air is legally required to be of a certain standard, divers are fussy like that!

j-team wrote:

dtdtdtdt wrote: Are you convinced that whoever fills the scuba tank dehydrates the air before hand?

Are you convinced that the driver of the oncoming car will not veer across the centre line and kill you? There are no certainties in life, but you can choose the less risky options.

A friend of mine who used to repair leaking airgun cylinders at a gunshop, told me that the majority of the leaking ones belonged to shooters who filled with a hand pump. BTW, I'm not sure about all parts of the world, but I think SCUBA air is legally required to be of a certain standard, divers are fussy like that!

J-team:

You're right on this point, everywhere scuba tanks for diving must be filled with dehydrated air, and it´s not because of the "fuzzynes" of divers but for safety reasons, it's the cleanest air you'll get.

We had trouble with the people who filled our reserve tank when we discovered that they - having noticed we weren´t using the air for diving - had been taking off the humidity filters, as the workload of the compressor is much less without them.

Now (at our club) we've resorted to nitrogen, from other source, and thus ended our worries about this matter.

Regards

Not quite sure how Nitrogen is likely to be clean and dry when its mainly an industrial gas for tires and welding. Do you mean there is less corrosion without the 20% oxygen in air even if the N is not dry?
There was a guy in the Phillipines on a forum where his scuba tank blew out white dust so, no, not everywhere in the world had the same standards for scuba filling!

Completely off topic but as I struggle to lift my 7litre tank from my car's trunk I wonder how anyone can move around in a boat with three of them strapped to their back!

TenMetrePeter wrote:Not quite sure how Nitrogen is likely to be clean and dry when its mainly an industrial gas for tires and welding. Do you mean there is less corrosion without the 20% oxygen in air even if the N is not dry?
There was a guy in the Phillipines on a forum where his scuba tank blew out white dust so, no, not everywhere in the world had the same standards for scuba filling!

Completely off topic but as I struggle to lift my 7litre tank from my car's trunk I wonder how anyone can move around in a boat with three of them strapped to their back!

You'd better say "not everywhere in the world MEET the standards they have to".

Bottled nitrogen is dry because it's PURE nitrogen, it has no oxigen to oxidize.

TenMetrePeter wrote:Not quite sure how Nitrogen is likely to be clean and dry when its mainly an industrial gas for tires and welding.

Industrial products tend to be very pure. Nitrogen is used to purge and pressure test HVAC systems. Don't want moisture or contaminants there. Or in most other industrial processes.

Being as how I'm both 72 years young and 70% Disabled Veteran I use BOTH Stirrup Pump and scuba bottle and the latter whacks the h**l out of my body, but, unlike the scuba bottle, all it needs is 'MUSCLE!' and the ability to breath when pumping, whilst the bottle needs to be recharged WAY to often and re-certified every 5 years.

I've 6 PCP Pistols, 2 of them are DEDICATED Target Pistols, the other 4 are for fun at home, but ruddy hard whackers out in the field, especially when after RATS!

One thing though, years ago I bought 'TRAPS!' that stop moisture getting into the guns. As I've now bought 3 large scuba bottles and 4 smaller ones, I've had to buy NEW Moisture Traps for them ALL and I do yearly, have the pistols and rifle serviced and the air cylinders on them checked and so far, to date and I've had two of them over 18 years now, none of the cylinders have failed or show have been moisture rotted.

Though I'm 70% Disabled, it's thanks to using the Stirrup Pump that I'm still on my feet and able to enjoy shooting.


ASS Pumping? Boy are you younkers 'BONKERS!'

I found that keeping the arms rigid and using body weight by bending the knees whist pumping makes the process much less difficult. I believe using body weight for the high pressure stroke is what makes the difference. That is with Hill and Axsor pumps.

I have never used a hand pump for the 10m PCP pistols due to a lack of fittings. Also, I like to have the air cylinder/reservoir higher than the pump outlet to help prevent any condensation entering (draining into) the gun air reservoir. I found that buying a used recently hydro tested SCUBA tank was (considerably) less expensive than a good quality (Hill, etc) hand pump, has much cleaner air, and will never allow over pressurizing the gun cylinder.

As an aside, any compression of room temperature air to 3000 psig (200 bar) will generate condensate (i.e. water). It's physics and cannot be avoided with any arrangement but an outlet high pressure desiccant filter, like the type used on SCUBA compressors. Any moisture generated from hand pumping has to go somewhere. I prefer to leave any moisture in the pump and (hopefully) blow it out via a bleed screw when depressurizing - that is another good reason to not let the pump get hot.