TargetTalk

hi folks, is there a preferred/factory m/v for different pellet weights, I have e-mailed the factory this question but have not had a reply (yet).
I have a choice of either 7.0gram or 8.2gram.
thanks
ken

as you increase the v linearly there may be sweet spots, groups may become small, then open up, then close again until they open up once more once the speed is too high. there's a pdf in a link of a British website somebody gave you in the other thread.

Yes, for each pellet weight you need to adjust the velocity, while your pistol is in vice grips.

for best results use heavier pellets, but test them before you buy. however if you don't shoot 570, buy what's cheaper...

Heavy vs. Light. In extensive testing with different guns, I have found no accuracy difference. I use cheap RWS Basic (7gr.). Switching from Heavy to Light I have found about 45 fps difference in velocity and have seen tests with even more. Somewhere between 480 and 530fps seems about right, but it's not engraved in stone.

Of all the things to worry about in this sport, I can't believe that velocity even makes top 10. Is there a chance that's been my problem all along? Could I have gone to one or more World Cups had I only paid more attention to velocity?

In 25 or so years shooting AP, the only time I've ever felt the need to adjust velocity was a TAU7 some time ago that a previous owner must have been using it for hunting. It sounded like a .22, and pellets were being launched at about 590 fps. Not a very good arrangement for competition - under 40 shots per CO2 caplet.

With my K10 I tested velocities ranging from about 445fps with 7.56gr H&N Finale Match up to 560fps with the same pellets (also various RWS, Pardini's match pellets too for a while and also Meisterkugelns and a few others), and found that the mid-400's up to around 470fps got me slightly lower scores. Once at 475fps with whichever pellet the only significant differences were noise level and shot count per fill. As I don't like excessive noise, and pumping isn't exactly fun, I tend to keep the velocity around 500 and forget about it. I did a few groups at different velocities with my K12 later, but since it's more fussy, what with the recoil absorber venting needing to be tailored to the velocity it quickly became tiresome and I stopped at around 500fps again.

I have been told here in the forum somewhere that Pardini recommends 535fps with 7gr but can't find that at the moment - perhaps member 'PardiniUSA' or something like that? And I've heard elsewhere that Steyr and others suggest between 525 and 535fps. So maybe that's better somehow? I just know I'm not very comfortable next to guys shooting at higher velocities without plugs in my ears.

This may be a wild suggestion, but why don't you just leave it alone? I'm sure the factory adjustment is optimal...

It may have been set right by the factory, but that doesn't mean it is still correct. I was at a match just today where a junior shooter with a Pardini was putting his pellets sideways through the target. All it took to fix it was a velocity screw adjustment. The Pardini apparently doesn't have a locking screw to keep the velocity screw fixed in place. The screw and spring that control the velocity can vibrate loose, and the preferred direction is for the screw to back out, dropping the velocity.

I've personally fixed at least a half dozen Tau-7's where the velocity screw has backed out over years of use.

It is also possible for the pressure regulator in a PCP to "drift" over time. Small changes in pressure can be corrected for with the velocity screw.

There is a tiny grub screw in the right hand side of the K12 frame which is intended to lock the striker spring preload adjuster bolt. Perhaps you are referring to a different Pardini model? It should be necessary to loosen this grub screw before adjusting velocity, and of course it should be tightened again after adjustment.

The one at the match today was the "Kid" model. The gentleman who adjusted it shoots an older Pardini, and he said his (model unknown) was also lacking a locking screw. Sounds like Pardini learned their lesson with the K12. Either that, or somebody else's the patent on the locking screw ran out...

There's always a dab of nail polish.....

I see l. Well it'd be a matter of a minute or two with a drill and a tap to prepare a hole for a grub screw. Pull the velocity adjuster bolt. Put a dowel in if concerned about stopping the drill, if a hand drill is being used (a pencil perhaps, anything which would slow the drill and prevent damage to threads on the opposite side), then tap the threads for a 10-32 or smaller set screw. Insert a small piece of nylon or other plastic to pad the tip of the set screw, install the velocity adjuster bolt again, then thread in the set screw until snug. The plastic bit preventing damage to the threads on the adjusting bolt. Looking into the threaded hole for the adjuster should make it clear where it is safe to drill such a hole.

Rover wrote:There's always a dab of nail polish.....

Sure. Or blue Loc-tite. Kind of what the stuff is made for.

Gwhite wrote:The one at the match today was the "Kid" model. The gentleman who adjusted it shoots an older Pardini, and he said his (model unknown) was also lacking a locking screw. Sounds like Pardini learned their lesson with the K12. Either that, or somebody else's the patent on the locking screw ran out...

I admit to being the "gentleman" Doug is referring to. Pardini puts a lock screw on the side of the frame, but it had either backed out or was never snugged down properly in the first place. I suggested to the young shooter that when he gets home he back out the lock screw again and apply a drop of his mom's nail polish to the threads before retightening. It's not subject to strong forces once in place, so I'd say any LocTite product is overkill.

The last time I looked at the velocity adjuster on a Pardini was probably 20 years ago - more out of curiosity than any concerns; forgive me forgetting whether there was a locking screw.

To my earlier point: this was a very unusual case. If the only loose hardware is the nut behind the trigger, velocity ought not be on anybody's radar unless they're off-the-scale obsessive-compulsive.

hi folks, thanks for all the responses, the reason I asked in the first place was that many things on this pistol had been "fiddled with" by the previous owner and I was merely trying to put the pistol back to the original factory settings (I didn't know what the correct pellet weight was or even if there was one) before attempting any personal adjustments.
thanks again
ken
p/s I have since been told by the UK importer that the correct m/v with 8.2grm pellets is 541 fps

Gerard wrote:With my K10 I tested velocities ranging from about 445fps with 7.56gr H&N Finale Match up to 560fps with the same pellets (also various RWS, Pardini's match pellets too for a while and also Meisterkugelns and a few others), and found that the mid-400's up to around 470fps got me slightly lower scores. Once at 475fps with whichever pellet the only significant differences were noise level and shot count per fill. As I don't like excessive noise, and pumping isn't exactly fun, I tend to keep the velocity around 500 and forget about it. I did a few groups at different velocities with my K12 later, but since it's more fussy, what with the recoil absorber venting needing to be tailored to the velocity it quickly became tiresome and I stopped at around 500fps again.

I have been told here in the forum somewhere that Pardini recommends 535fps with 7gr but can't find that at the moment - perhaps member 'PardiniUSA' or something like that? And I've heard elsewhere that Steyr and others suggest between 525 and 535fps. So maybe that's better somehow? I just know I'm not very comfortable next to guys shooting at higher velocities without plugs in my ears.

Warning, approaching dangerous territory (that would be me, in what passes for thinking):
Don't Canadian importers order their air pistols regulated to below 500fps in order to not have them defined as firearms by the authorities? If so, I find it hard to believe that manufacturers and sellers would conspire to inflict less than optimal performance on the country's shooters for the sake of expedience. What high-level competitor would maintain confidence in a provider who sacrifices match scores to bureaucratic convenience?

Gerard made a statement that I find unimaginable. Can a properly filled A-P really vary by 110+ fps depending on pellet choice?

You lost me William. Did something I said imply a 110fps velocity change via pellet choice alone? Can't see where my words could be interpreted as such. But in theory, sure, pellet weight can make that much difference. Ever try one of those hyper-velocity things weighing around 4gr? They spit out very fast. They also corkscrew badly making them impractical for any sensible application outside maybe 5 metres, but they do go fast.

As for my experiences with Pardini pistols, I bought a used K10 and later a new K12 from an authorised Pardini dealer. The K10 came to me shooting 7gr pellets at 530fps. It was too loud so I adjusted the velocity adjuster (striker spring preload) outward untilnit was comfortable, which turned out to meter at about 470fps with my Chrony F1. When I initially tested the brand new K12 it was shooting 7.56gr pellets at about 525fps. I did likewise, turning it down for preference. I did ask the vendor and others about this, considering the law regarding pistol power AND velocity here - any pistol becomes a restricted weapon if BOTH muzzle velocity AND projectile energy exceed specific limits. Many misinterpret or over-simplify such that it's just one or the other, which would essentially make most air pistols restricted when fired using lightweight alloy or plastic pellets, hence the dual requirement of 500fps AND 5.7joules (4.204fpe).

What I was told was that a) competitors here did not feel that it was likely they would ever have their air pistols confiscated and checked, b) that Pardini and other European manufacturers set their pistols so as to deliver optimal accuracy, and c), that if it bothered me I could of course adjust velocity downwards. I was a bit surprised at a) as it seemed an unnecessary risk, and b) seemed odd considering RCMP testing of imported airguns. But so it seems to go here. I suppose they're right on the point regarding unlikeliness of confiscation and testing - the police are mostly interested in criminal activity, so target shooting doesn't really come onto their radar. In fact a couple of competitors were EX-RCMP, one was still a contractor for that agency, in some capacity around maintaining firearms liccenses and occasionally making cases towards confiscations and even arrests through documentation tracking. This latter fellow was quite a nice guy, and when discussing this matter with him he did not seem concerned. Not a priority I guess. Not like tracking down guys who use whatever weapons in commission of crimes.

Anyway, as it happens I prefer an air pistol shooting more quietly and so keep my K12 below the limit. And I haven't competed or even trained much since the fall of 2013 owing to shoulder then elbow problems. Not sure whether or not I'll get back into it, at least seriously enough to compete again, as those injuries cut into my ability to work - I work with musical instruments and especially the doublebass; challenging work physically when an arm goes bad. My shoulder and elbow are fine now and I'd like them to stay that way. A few thousand shots dry and live per week seemed to be central in hurting myself, so probably better to avoid doing that.

Gerard, I have been seeing a very good sports Physiotherapist and has got my shoulders and upper back loosened up with one of the foam rollers. No not for painting but for exercise. It is 8" x 60" and allows me to unwind my spine and open up the chest. If your wife has insurance you might want to use your insurance and see a sports therapist for help with the shoulder. I have been "tight" ever since I got of the Army. This is sure helping!

I've been keeping up my shoulder flexibility and strengthening, and have no more significant discomfort or weakness as of this summer. Unfortunately time is the issue now in terms of pistol competition. I've got too much work to do, no time for serious training. I'm using my Pardini pistol on the local rat population with the help of a temporary plastic grip with aluminum wire stock, 3x scope and night vision device. Works nicely, but that does nothing for my pistol technique. When I do shoot air pistol it's one of my Webley vintage plinkers and usually no more then a few shots before getting back to work.

Even if I were able to dedicate myself to training, the local club has rather diminished capacity. A shared space for their temporary once-per-week practices. No more competition hosting. Hundreds of kilometres just to get to the nearest formal match, available maybe 3 or 4 times per year. The scene seems a bit stalled around here, at least until the club maybe someday gets cooperation from their city council on allowing the building of a dedicated range. So I'm shooting HFT informally now and then when I can get a ride to the range 50km away. Will do a little plinking when we go camping next month. That's about it for my shooting these days.

Old thread but just dropping some chronograph results from a K12J and K12 might help someone one day.

RWS R10 7gr 4.49
K12J: Average was 555.39 FPS (Range: 3.4 FPS)
K12: Average was 586.4 FPS (Range: 6.6 FPS)

RWS R10 8.2gr 4.49
K12J: Average was 505.82 FPS (Range: 4.3 FPS)
K12: Average was 526.8 FPS (Range: 8.5 FPS)

OK, stop the blather!
Use RWS Basic...cheap, accurate, cuts cleaner holes with low velocity guns.
Set your Pardini at somewhere in the range of 500 to 530fps, put a dab of nail polish on top of the adjustment screw and get a life.