TargetTalk

How do you decide when a shot is so close to the value ring if it's considered the next value?
What I mean is,if the hole touches the line but does not break it all the way,is it still consider the next higher value?
I remember back in the early 80's when shooting air pistol
I was told that the shot needs to break the line all the way
In other words,if you can still see some of the line it would not count for the higher value
Am I wrong?
Jerry

A scoring plug is a relatively inexpensive way to do that. All the much so if you are dealing with crappy target paper.

Just to add to the previous reply... In most cases the hole made by your pellet is actually smaller than the caliber. That's why a scoring plug can really help.

Also an "Eagle Eye" magnifier can help. It has etched circles in the base which match the pellet diameter, so you center it on top of the hole and see where the line intersects.

Eagle Eye on left and scoring plug on right:


The scoring plug also has a bit of a magnifer around the base:

Under ISSF rules if the shot (using its measuring diameter) touches the line then you get the higher score.

It's the bit about the "measuring diameter" that means that you need to use a gauge for shots close to the line. The hole itself will rarely be the full measuring diameter.

Then you run into the problem of whether you should be using an "inward" or an "outward" scoring gauge, and don't forget "inner 10" gauges.

See section 1.4 (and its sub-sections) from the new ISSF rules for scoring paper targets (as the attached file).

If you shoot actual (non email) postal matches some leagues forbid the use of penetrating gauges before the organising scorer receives the cards. The temptation to "lean" the gauge into the next ring can be irresistable.

Okay
I know about the scoring gauge
But what I needed to know is at what point do you score to the higher value
Is it touching the line?Or breaking the the line?
Looks to me that if it's touching then it is the next value
Thank you for your help
Jerry

jerber wrote:Okay
I know about the scoring gauge
But what I needed to know is at what point do you score to the higher value
Is it touching the line?Or breaking the the line?
Looks to me that if it's touching then it is the next value
Thank you for your help
Jerry

Click on the link David provided you three posts ago, and you´ll see that there are drawings and graphics explainig the estremes you ask a deginition for, between rules 1.4.5 to 1.4.11, There´s no way to be confused, in apite there`s always a litle room for "a reasonable doubt", that - in the spirit of the sport - must always be decided in favor of the shooter.

That`s why when there`s "reasonable doubt" in the mind of the scorer, he calls two other judges without extracting the already inserted gauge.

But all that is going to be history at important matches, as only electronic scoring is allowed at them.

Touching with a tester in our comps'

Keep you stinky fingers off the targets. All scoring is by scorers and juries. If you don't like score, you pay a fee for the jury. You win; money back.

Of course, in less formal matches you can just whine until they're sick of you.

Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will

redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will

Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).

redschietti wrote:Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will

Target Scan on Android tended to be over generous when I tried it
When I stood in as scorer for a while the simple gauge with .177 shoulder and slightly smaller diameter for the holes gave a definitive score and very little enlargement.

redschietti wrote:...Humans all score higher than a machine will

Might be related to the accuracy of the printing of the paper target. EST will give the true value of the shot, irrespective of the diameter of a printed ring.
Add in variations in the humidity (target paper 'grows' with increase in humidity) and paper targets are not all that consistent.

David Levene wrote:

redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will

Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).

Not only a joke!
As Jury Chairman I checked the plug gauges to be used at an international competition - one set of plug gauges for 300M rifle were lovely and shiny, but well under size.

Spencer wrote:

David Levene wrote:

redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will

Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).

Not only a joke!
As Jury Chairman I checked the plug gauges to be used at an international competition - one set of plug gauges for 300M rifle were lovely and shiny, but well under size.

I've been to a competition where the organisers decided to tidy-up their trigger weights by giving them a nice fresh coat of paint.

Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.

redschietti wrote:Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will

I've tried it and liked it. It also did very well with two shots in one hole.

I usually use an inner scoring gauge since it magnifies, but sometimes use an outside gauge when there is a shot cluster near the line, cutting the line away. Eagle Eye works very well, but there was some discussion about the size of the scoring rings in it. The inner and outer gauges are cheap.

Be careful when using an overlay, since they come in different sizes.

bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.

What did the Jury member that you told do about this?

Spencer wrote:

bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.

What did the Jury member that you told do about this?

There was a complaint about me changing gauges when scoring a match last year.

I amazed myself by not laughing as I explained the difference between a normal outward gauge and an inner 10 gauge.

It was even more confusing as it was Air Rifle so, not only did I have an inward gauge on the table, I was also using an Air Pistol gauge.

For those who are interested, read 1.4.4, 1.4.5 & 1.4.7 of the new paper target scoring rules (equate to 6.3.5.4, 6.3.5.5 & 6.3.5.7 in the old rules).

David Levene wrote:

Spencer wrote:

bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.

What did the Jury member that you told do about this?

There was a complaint about me changing gauges when scoring a match last year.

I amazed myself by not laughing as I explained the difference between a normal outward gauge and an inner 10 gauge.

It was even more confusing as it was Air Rifle so, not only did I have an inward gauge on the table, I was also using an Air Pistol gauge.

For those who are interested, read 1.4.4, 1.4.5 & 1.4.7 of the new paper target scoring rules (equate to 6.3.5.4, 6.3.5.5 & 6.3.5.7 in the old rules).

I suspected something like this.

Plus at world Cups and Commonwealth Games in the past (i.e. on paper targets), up to three tables with different sets of gauges would be on the go at the same time.