TargetTalk

I have already jumped on the ISSF and IOC for their actions. But, I wanted to mention that several years ago, a group in Canada wanted to get the World Shooting Federation going and I was part of it for awhile. We even had a congress meeting in Budapest. But, it never got off the ground and got set up. What they wanted to do was to have a World Championship for all the shooting events not contested in the Games. How about getting something like this going again? Then, all the people who are excluded from th Games would have a place to go at a high level. Something to think about. Don in Oregon

Thumbs up for that..get out the Olympics all together and be done with it already.
Even thought the NRA has "World Shooting Championships" logo/rights locked up. It Could be International World....... and so forth.

Even if it never comes to the US so what.

PM Sent.

I'm interested in knowing which events you're considering.

AFAIK, all ISSF disciplines have international competitions regularly. In 2016, an Olympic year here's the list of ISSF competitions:
http://www.issf-sports.org/competitions.ashx

Then there's the World Championships held alternately with the Olympics.

So, if you want international competition in all the non-Olympic disciplines it already happens.

Now if you want annual competition, I'd suggest you start an annual open competition, run it well and influence and support others in other regions to do the same.

Healthy international competitions grow and are sustained by healthy local and regional competition.

Often each discipline has it's own national federation that operates independently from the recognised national Olympic federation. But the Olympic federation leaves all competitions and organisation to the other federation and accepts their nominations for the Olympic team.

Those federations often have their own national and international competitions as well. The IOC and the OGs are already far from being the only game in town.

Doesn't mean that there isn't a discipline or two that couldn't benefit from an independent national federation and that national federation shouldn't follow the lead of another or take the lead to form an international one.

SlartyBartFast wrote:AFAIK, all ISSF disciplines have international competitions regularly. In 2016, an Olympic year here's the list of ISSF competitions:
http://www.issf-sports.org/competitions.ashx

Just looking at pistol, World Cups do not hold Centre Fire or Standard Pistol, which are both full ISSF competitions.

The only top level competitions with those events are the World Championships and Continental Championships. That means that, again at top level, you get one match every 2 years.

David Levene wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote:AFAIK, all ISSF disciplines have international competitions regularly. In 2016, an Olympic year here's the list of ISSF competitions:
http://www.issf-sports.org/competitions.ashx

Just looking at pistol, World Cups do not hold Centre Fire or Standard Pistol, which are both full ISSF competitions.

The only top level competitions with those events are the World Championships and Continental Championships. That means that, again at top level, you get one match every 2 years.

Showing, IMO, the rage and focus on the IOC and OG is probably misplaced. What is needed is effort and organisation from within the ranks of some of the disciplines to either include these in existing World Cup competitions or have separate World Cups for those disciplines.

If my reading of the rules is correct, only 300m events are not mandatory at World Championships. But may be added to the program by the host federation. Or they must be held separately. (But there's a loophole oversight in that all the 300m events aren't specifically named in the requirements.

And it seems Continental Games are at the total discretion of continental federations/associations?

I'm assuming that the rule "3.3.3.3 The Organizing Committee may include any ISSF recognized event in the program." means any of the Jr. M or Jr. W events.

Interestingly, the ISSF rules seem to be silent about the frequency of World Cups and Continental Games and which events are mandatory in them. Where can I find the rules for World Cup requirements?

So what hurdles are there really to holding a separate Centre Fire or Standard Pistol or 300m rifle World Cup annually or convincing a host federation into adding the discipline?

SlartyBartFast wrote: Interestingly, the ISSF rules seem to be silent about the frequency of World Cups and Continental Games and which events are mandatory in them. Where can I find the rules for World Cup requirements?

So what hurdles are there really to holding a separate Centre Fire or Standard Pistol or 300m rifle World Cup annually or convincing a host federation into adding the discipline?

The prime purposes of World Cups are to allow athletes to gain Olympic MQSs and QPs (for their country). That's the reason why they don't include the non-Olympic events.

They are expensive matches to run and enter.

Here in Europe there is a separate set of competitions for CF and Std, the Europa Cup, with 4 competitions and a final.

David Levene wrote:Here in Europe there is a separate set of competitions for CF and Std, the Europa Cup, with 4 competitions and a final.

I put a lot of effort into looking up Canadian shooting federations and made lots of edits to the following wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports_in_Canada

I think most people have focused on the OG and forgotten or are unaware of the multitude of federations divided by regions and by disciplines and cooperation and division of areas of influence between them.

For example, keep clicking "load more" at http://olympic.ca/sports/

Bowling and all sorts of other sports are associated with the Canadian Olympic Committee.

Scratch the surface of the Shooting Federation of Canada, and numerous national and provincial associations are involved in organising and running events.

There may be room and (more importantly) demand for more frequent international competition in many disciplines. Seems to me that the opportunities already exist to promote such competition within the ISSF, within existing international federations, within national federations, and as stand alone events.

No matter how it's looked at it becomes a complex issue of logistics and financing. How much are popular disciplines prepared to support less popular disciplines, how much time can be given at existing events, how much can the individual disciplines self-finance, how much athletes can self-finance.

SlartyBartFast wrote:Showing, IMO, the rage and focus on the IOC and OG is probably misplaced

Yup. The Olympic events are a subset of the full ISSF World Championships. And IIRC, part of this whole wretched affair was ISSF deciding to hold two Worlds in a quadrennium, instead of only one, in an attempt to salvage something.

With the exception of the high-visibility Spandex Sports, any international governing body depending on the IOC for their viability is making a Great Big Mistake.

Xman how is it that the NRA has rights to " World Shooting Championships" ? The ISSF and UIT have been running the World Championships for decades even in the US.

I had forgotten that there were World Champs for many of the disciplines, but wouldn't it be nice if all the non-Olympic shooting areas could be held at one time in various locations like the OG. Don in Oregon

gwsb wrote:Xman how is it that the NRA has rights to " World Shooting Championships" ? The ISSF and UIT have been running the World Championships for decades even in the US.

https://wsc.nra.org/

While it does say NRA World Shooting Championship,

It does bill itself and advertise as world shooting championship, perhaps the "right" to the wording is public domain and anyone and everyone can use the words.

I guess my post could be misleading as I did not clarify the wording.

Does/did ISSF/UIT label its championships as ISSF/UIT World Shooting Championships? Or in some other manner?

Mike M. wrote:And IIRC, part of this whole wretched affair was ISSF deciding to hold two Worlds in a quadrennium, instead of only one, in an attempt to salvage something.

I don't remember that Mike.

I'm "fairly" sure it hasn't happened since my first WCHs in 1986, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

Shooter wrote:I had forgotten that there were World Champs for many of the disciplines, but wouldn't it be nice if all the non-Olympic shooting areas could be held at one time in various locations like the OG. Don in Oregon

Based on my understanding of the ISSF rules, the ISSF World Championships are for all ISSF recognised men's and women's events. The only events that might not be at a World Championship is 300m rifle events. But if they're not held with all the other events they have to be held the same year separately.

It's the World Cups that don't represent all the events.

(I'm getting really annoyed that the ISSF uses the word "event" to describe both a competition and individual disciplines. Also took me a while to grasp that ISSF Championship meant ANY ISSF competition World Cups, Continental Games, World Championships, Continental Championships, or Olympic Games. I'm a technical writer by trade and find there's a lot of improvement that could be made in the ISSF rulebook.)

SlartyBartFast wrote:Also took me a while to grasp that ISSF Championship meant ANY ISSF competition World Cups, Continental Games, World Championships, Continental Championships, or Olympic Games.

It wasn't that difficult to find, 6,1,2 a) is fairly early in the GTRs.

David Levene wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote:Also took me a while to grasp that ISSF Championship meant ANY ISSF competition World Cups, Continental Games, World Championships, Continental Championships, or Olympic Games.

It wasn't that difficult to find, 6,1,2 a) is fairly early in the GTRs.

Except all the details of events are in 3.2. I've not read the entire thing sequentially. Nor should anyone really have to. So they're providing a better intro in section 6.

Like I said. There are many improvements that could be made to make the document more accessible and easier to understand.

Then there's the ISSF website. Where do you go on that monstrosity to find the hierarchy of competitions or national federations?

Know where further detail about frequency and organisation of World Cups, Continental Championships, and Continental Games can be found?

SlartyBartFast wrote:Then there's the ISSF website. Where do you go on that monstrosity to find the hierarchy of competitions or national federations?

I'm not certain exactly what you're after but rules 1.3 and 1.19 might answer some of it.

David Levene wrote: I don't remember that Mike.

I'm "fairly" sure it hasn't happened since my first WCHs in 1986, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

It hasn't, in the past. My reading of what's been announced is that ISSF is trying to hold two WCHs in a quadrennium in the future.

Mike M. wrote:

David Levene wrote: I don't remember that Mike.

I'm "fairly" sure it hasn't happened since my first WCHs in 1986, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

It hasn't, in the past. My reading of what's been announced is that ISSF is trying to hold two WCHs in a quadrennium in the future.

I must have missed that Mike. Realising that there's been quite a lot coming out recently, any idea where you saw it?