TargetTalk

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/o ... e21993578/

Yes from 2014 but relevant..

Do a search and you will find loads of pages addressing this. NONE have shooting at any where atop of the list.

slarty..

Your missing the forest for the trees..

Shooting is doomed as we now now it in the SOG. All events post 2020 will be air pistol or rifle, mixed or otherwise. If kept at all.

WC and otherwise individual championships is all that will remain. Gender equality or not. ISSF does not have the balls and the IOC has all the cards.

https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-approv ... tokyo-2020

Rock climbing, skate boarding, Karate, "sport climbing" whatever that is??, and surfing ( all certainly not gender equal in 2020 from what I can tell) all added to 2020. Add baseball and softball.... those had been tried before and dropped!!!! WTF!!

From the above Olympic news post...

"The five sports are an innovative combination of established and emerging, youth-focused events that are popular in Japan and will add to the legacy of the Tokyo Games. "

Shooting is certainly NOT youth focused as they have the MOST restrictive gun laws in the WORLD.

"The additional sports in Tokyo will not impact the athlete or event quotas of existing Olympic sports or be binding on future host cities. The current athlete and event quotas are unaffected."

So drop others like shooting events BEFORE the SOGs

"The decision by the 129th IOC Session in Rio de Janeiro was the most comprehensive evolution of the Olympic programme in modern history. Plans call for staging the skateboarding and sports climbing events in temporary venues installed in urban settings, marking a historic step in bringing the Games to young people and reflecting the trend of urbanisation of sport.

What a lot of BS, double standards and not following its own agenda of "gender" inclusion/neutrality crap. There is a lot of urbanization in shooting these days..take Chicago IL, USA 700+ murders this year so far. Lets have a drug deal gone bad as an event. Or rival gang team event at 2am over turf.

Lets just get out of the OG completely and be done it it. ON our own terms and with SOME indignity.

Instead of the piecemeal program the the IOC has in store for the shooting events.

Calling me out in a new thread is kinda wrong. And there's so many separate points in there.

Many of the "dropped" sports were demonstration sports. Every OG has new sports added and rotated. Some become permanent, some don't. Some core sports go away. Nothing surprising. Part of my point of questioning the doomsday proclamations of those that treat OG inclusion as critical to the survival of the sports.

And be careful of being dismissive of others sports. Can't complain when they're dismissive of yours if you are of theirs. And where do you get that they aren't following their own guidelines? Karate is equally split between mens and womens divisions, surfing doesn't show the disciplines, but shows a female surfer on the sport page.

And to know what sport climbing is, you just need to look it up: https://tokyo2020.jp/en/games/sport/olympic/

EDIT: I found the list of new sports. ALL include mens and womens competition. ALL have an even number of events. https://tokyo2020.jp/en/news/notice/20160804-01.html

Shooting may indeed move to air events in the Olympics. My response is: So? There's still the ISSF events. 300m isn't in the Olympics. But you can still compete internationally under the ISSF. You just can't win an Olympic medal.

There is little point to re adding again as that were in as demo sports before and FAILED.

If they were MIXED teams.. now then MAYBE they would fall under the gender inclusion aspect that IOC is seeking, but NOT as all male and all female teams would fall under. It is only fair is it not?

In shooting, male and female CAN complete equally at the same time against each other. The numbers may not represent that fact NOW.... but make it a true IOC sport..then they ( the ladies ) will come.

Shooting in general will allways remaining a male dominant sport unless the sport opens up to be inclusive or creates events to included them/ladies. I would be open to have fewer males shooters in current all male events to keep the athlete numbers down for the SOG/

nothing personal Splarty... I assure you

I'm interested in gay kissing event, anyone knows when it will be in the program? I also like Lego, so I'd like that too in the Olympics some day, thanks!

hundert wrote:I'm interested in gay kissing event, anyone knows when it will be in the program? I also like Lego, so I'd like that too in the Olympics some day, thanks!

And that's a level of childishness that gets us nowhere.

Xman wrote:There is little point to re adding again as that were in as demo sports before and FAILED.

Curling was a demonstration sport at many WOG before being adopted permanently. So each OG host is free to add their favourite sports. None of these "failed", they just weren't selected again or weren't made into permanent OG sports. And as I linked in another thread, there's a bowling federation associated with and recognised by the Canadian Olympic Committee.

There's one associated with http://www.teamusa.org/ as well.

And while everyone is quick to mock, these other sports require skills, strength, and such far beyond any shooter (Although as a bowler, I'm not so sure about bowling :p). And require the same dedication that is required to attain a similar level in shooting.

And in all this gnashing of teeth, shooting is keeping the same number of OG events and medals. The Commonwealth games reached gender parity in shooting. The hurdle for the OG is choosing which disciplines and what to do about the odd number of events.

And it's "slarty" if you must abbreviate.

SlartyBartFast wrote:The Commonwealth games reached gender parity in shooting.

From memory (which could be wrong) Gold Coast is following the same shooting programme as Glasgow, and that had 1 fewer event for women than for men.

Xman wrote:There is little point to re adding again as that were in as demo sports before and FAILED.

If they were MIXED teams.. now then MAYBE they would fall under the gender inclusion aspect that IOC is seeking, but NOT as all male and all female teams would fall under. It is only fair is it not?

In shooting, male and female CAN complete equally at the same time against each other. The numbers may not represent that fact NOW.... but make it a true IOC sport..then they ( the ladies ) will come.

Shooting in general will allways remaining a male dominant sport unless the sport opens up to be inclusive or creates events to included them/ladies. I would be open to have fewer males shooters in current all male events to keep the athlete numbers down for the SOG/

nothing personal Splarty... I assure you

I think a fundamental misunderstanding you might have is that you think the IOC wants gender equality of opportunity. To the contrary, the IOC wants equality of outcome. Given that far more men shoot competitively than women, it's pretty unlikely you're going to have equal gender representation by having coed events.

sparky:
" a fundamental misunderstanding,...,is that the IOC wants gender equality of opportunity. To the contrary, the IOC wants equality of outcome',

A VERY insightful comment.

David Levene wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote:The Commonwealth games reached gender parity in shooting.

From memory (which could be wrong) Gold Coast is following the same shooting programme as Glasgow, and that had 1 fewer event for women than for men.

Looks like the list I read was wrong. The extra event is men's 50m pistol according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... alth_Games

But this page shows 8 each:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... alth_Games

Wiki might be an easy source, but it isn't always correct.

sparky wrote:I think a fundamental misunderstanding you might have is that you think the IOC wants gender equality of opportunity. To the contrary, the IOC wants equality of outcome. Given that far more men shoot competitively than women, it's pretty unlikely you're going to have equal gender representation by having coed events.

Unless they are mixed teams, no you won't meet the IOC goal.
Same participation, same number of events, same number of medals.

You realise that considering the OG as a display of the best goes against Pierre deCoubertain's goals. Right? He wanted to promote participation in sport.

Even if it's about determining the best, we've all come along way forward to realise the best men and the best women should have a moment to shine.

Xman wrote:Add baseball and softball.... those had been tried before and dropped!!!! WTF!!

I think you're ignoring the fact that softball is borderline the national sport in Japan. It's massive. Japan's softball team beat the USA at the 2008 Olympics.

Every Games has some demonstration sports, some of which will be up and coming sports being tried for future inclusion, some of which represent the host nation. Karate and softball are total no-brainers for Tokyo.