TargetTalk

The NRA has decided to move the high power championships from Camp Perry. Dennis Willing is quoted as saying ,

“I intend to change the face of High Power Rifle as a discipline, and will be presenting matches that are better than competitors have ever seen before."

He is the same guy who moved small bore and lied about it. Sounds like somebody on an ego trip to me. What are they going to do with pistol?

New site is Camp Atterbury, Indiana, south of Indianapolis and north of Columbus, IN. It is a 4 hr drive from where the smallbore matches are currently held (farther away than Camp Perry is from Bristol).

See:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/11/ ... amp-perry/


There are no readily visible ranges on GoogleEarth. Anyone know what their shooting facilities are like?

Also see:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... atterbury/

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/11/nra-mov ... z4QIO9KPS3

http://nmlra.org/nmlra-long-range-match ... atterbury/

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thread ... y.3913459/

Rifle ranges are due south of the Airstrip. There are several but only one that is 600 yards, as far as I know. Parking is very limited and that range has 50 points. So if as many people shoot as last year it will need to be 6 relays. I shot there once in 2011. The only issue I remember is that the carriers were not well balanced.

The 2017 NRA pistol dates were moved yesterday to July 9-13 (the old Rifle dates) without coordination with CMP which still has their matches on July 1 and 2. This leaves a 1 week gap and will prevent me from being able to shoot the NRA matches this year

Canton is still scheduled for June 23-25 which they did to accomodate the NRA dates of the June 26-30 in the schedule published in September. Interestingly the pistol and rifle dates overlap, so NRA competitions will need staffing at both Atterbury and Perry for the matches.

Online you can find a message from Mark Johnson of CMP. The word is that CMP found out about this when the article was published yesterday. They are supposed to issue a press release soon.

Here is the CMP email that I received.
----------------------------------------------
November 17, 2016

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is pleased to announce planning is underway for a number of new and exciting programs for the 2018 National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio.

"In an effort to continue to attract new competitors and to reward the thousands who annually participate in our matches, the CMP will add new pistol, smallbore, high power rifle, and long range rifle matches in 2018," said Mark Johnson, CMP Chief Operating Officer.

"A major part of our mission is to conduct competitions, provide marksmanship training and recognize competitors for their progress and achievements as has been done at the National Matches since 1903. Accordingly, we enthusiastically look forward to the opportunity to expand our role at the National Matches at Camp Perry. We are committed to Camp Perry and our published dates for events in 2017 remain set. We have invested in Camp Perry with electronic targets on Petrarca Range, the Bataan Armory, our headquarters building, the CMP North Store, and the Gary Anderson CMP Competition Center."

Planned enhancements include a new CMP High Power Ranking System which will provide a fair and accountable method of rewarding success on the firing line at every level of experience, above and beyond our current awards. New, challenging pistol and rifle matches will be added to the schedule. Greater shooting opportunities for women and junior competitors are being developed. Increased use of electronic targets is being considered for many events. A CMP Range Officer Certification and Licensing Program has been developed for pistol, rifle and airgun disciplines and will be introduced by year-end.

"The CMP will not waver in its mission of promoting firearm safety and marksmanship training with an emphasis on youth," Johnson said. "The tradition of the National Matches at Camp Perry will continue, supported by the CMP and the Ohio National Guard, with or without the participation of other organizations."


For more information on the National Matches or to download a 2017 National Match Calendar, visit the CMP website at http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-national-matches/.

Hmmm.

First, NRA smallbore moves temporarily. Then, it appears to be a permanent move. Next, NRA pistol and CMP pistol matches are moved to an odd week in late June. Now, NRA high-power has been moved and NRA pistol has changed weeks and is no longer in conjunction with CMP pistol.

Does anyone else think there must be a whole lot more going on behind the scenes, than is being shared with the competitors?

Its bleeding obvious that Willing or his boss is either crazy or on an ego trip. They were not honest with us about smallbore and I think its clear they or maybe the CMP are lying about everything, or maybe its just a power grab by one or the other organizations.

I have felt for a long time that the NRA BOD should be term limited so that they dont forget where they came from.

We truly love the shooting sports and hope for the best. The issues/problems at USA Shooting that came to a head over the last year may also plague the NRA. (of which we are a life member.)

We can only hope for the best!

CMP, NRA, ISSF ...are becoming the new 3 stooge's. Inept and worse. Three fiefdoms in a 3way tug of war. And the competitors lose again.

All fighting for their share of a dwindling pool of competitors and resources .... all self inflicted.

This latest episode just illustrates how balkenized the sport has become in the US.

New courses of fire?, another classification system?, different targets?. New publications?, different rules?, different memberships and dues of course REQUIRED to compete?. It goes on and on.

You may say " Hey, give it a chance, the new programs and stuff have not been announced, no details yet, it might be good for the sport." Well I have a bridge in Brooklyn I wanna sell you.

Oh yeah this is going to be real exciting to read about here on this forum.

Maybe it would have been better if Clinton did win as we are NOT doing ourselves any favors by this death of a 1000 cuts.

We have met the enemy, and it is now us.

so long smallbore, goodby high power. Pistol is next on the hit list to be fractured off and out of Perry. It is just soo obvious.

Jaded? You bet.

CMP and NRA are having a food fight, that's clear. From where I stand, it looks like the NRA is backing away from all competitive shooting...and CMP is aligning more and more with the international disciplines.

Mike M. wrote:CMP and NRA are having a food fight, that's clear. From where I stand, it looks like the NRA is backing away from all competitive shooting...and CMP is aligning more and more with the international disciplines.

That'd be fine by me. At least the CMP doesn't ask me to buy gun and life insurance every month or waste space with politics in their magazines that could be filled with, gee, I don't know, GUNS.

Chia wrote:

Mike M. wrote:CMP and NRA are having a food fight, that's clear. From where I stand, it looks like the NRA is backing away from all competitive shooting...and CMP is aligning more and more with the international disciplines.

That'd be fine by me. At least the CMP doesn't ask me to buy gun and life insurance every month or waste space with politics in their magazines that could be filled with, gee, I don't know, GUNS.

This is way more than a food fight. It is a possible ending battle for the hearts and minds of a smaller and smaller constituency of the shooting public..the competitive shooter in SBR and HP being casual or hardcore in nature as the first communities to go. The NRA could care less.

I do believe it has been a goal of the NRA since 1977 and the Cincinnati "reforms" to have the NRA become a strictly a civil right organization. The competitive segment of the memberships were just to be a tag a long, cash cow for the NRA and would slowly and painfully for the members, be divested from the NRA. The NRA would use the competitive membership any way they could and exploit them. Just so as to keep the $$$ flowing into the NRA via match fees, membership requirements to shoot in sanctioned events, official/required products ie targets and so forth.

Now that the trend shows the numbers dwindling in that community it was/is time to cut bait. It is a point for diminishing returns for the NRA and no longer worth the effort to keep the competitive community in its sphere. It started with the NRA stopping being the sanctioning body for USA international community, proceeding to separating tournament news and match info out of the American Rifleman..thusly opening more space for the advertisements, political stuff and other items of questionable use in the magazines..BUY GOLD NOW!! or this tribute .45!.

It generated another income stream..via a paid subscription to Tournament News into many many different formats over the decades and now as Shooting Sports USA via the web and that crappy PDF DL for sanctioned events that is sooo cluttered to be nearly useless in its holdover layout from when in was in the magazine. Damn it is 80 pages to print out! And that events schedule provided more income streams to the NRA coffers with really little, tangible trickle down to the competitors. Its like "Hey, let come up with new competitions, charge more, get more $$$ to support the political stuff!" There are sooo many competitions of all kinds that the NRA sanctions that it has the effect of snuffing out others. Not enticing more shooters, just peeling them away from another shooting event.

Now those chickens have come home to roost. The NRA is getting its wish. Lets shove aside those faithful minions that have served us (the NRA ) with $$$ and support as they are now bled dry of participants..getting old or splintering off into other NRA events and we the NRA really dont need them anymore.

Dont let the door hit you in the ass as your headed out. It been real..Goodbye. thanks for the $$$

Without getting into politics, because I'm definitely NOT interested in seeing a repeat performance by the poor mods and admin of this site, I look forward to the day that competitive shooting sports are run by and treated with the respect due to them.

Shooting well is difficult. It takes time and a patience that just isn't taught these days to kids. It is a crucial skill that should be encouraged among the populace of this country. That education and promotion is also the CMP's mission. It makes sense for them to become an organization that handles that type of thing. The only thing that makes me leery is the quasi-governmental structure of the CMP.

I posted this on another thread, but I am pretty sure the pistol dates are not going to move. The CMP has rifle matches scheduled on or close to the dates that the Comp Dir of the NRA wanted to move the pistol matches to, and it is impossible to set up the range, and then tear it down again for rifle in the time allotted.


The CMP has been quite adament that the dates will not move, and since the original article said the change of dates would have to be approved by the NRA board, i just dont see it happening.

Atterbury Pits. These are not my photos they were found online from 2015.








Google map link to one of the 2 600+ yard ranges.
https://goo.gl/maps/bkG6jj5gJyw

It seems that the main interest of the NRA competitions is their new World Shooting Championship, which was heavily advertised and heavy on the awards, lots of money flow. $50,000 in awards and prizes! Can you imagine the increased attendance of Camp Perry with that kind of advertising and $50,000 in awards and prizes?

Does the phrase "follow the money" ring a bell?

NRA Precision Pistol shooters can expect to be part of the same pattern the NRA has set with International, Smallbore, and now Highpower. A move will be coming, to where? Probably Cardinal, which will be nice not shooting in calf deep mud while your gear gets soaked.

My prediction will be that the established shooting disciplines will become the red headed stepchild to the NRA's new darling, The World Shooting Championships.

The reason is simple, just follow the yellow brick road.

While the NRA had to approve the HP move, the competitor committee (members are active competitors not NRA admin) made the recommendation.

After reading through the 21 pages about this on the HP site it seems there are more positive than negative opinions.

- Dave

dronning wrote:While the NRA had to approve the HP move, the competitor committee (members are active competitors not NRA admin) made the recommendation.

After reading through the 21 pages about this on the HP site it seems there are more positive than negative opinions.

- Dave

Dave, could you provide a link to said High Power Discussion?

I woild love to know the thought process, and the current problems with Perry.

I am not sure the same can be said of the decision to attempt to move the pistol dates. There are now CMP rifle matches clearly in conflict with the July dates for pistol, and the CMP is refusing to budge on their dates for pistol, I think, for a very good reason. I suppose it will be January before this is sorted?

Isabel1130 wrote:
Dave, could you provide a link to said High Power Discussion?

I woild love to know the thought process, and the current problems with Perry.

I am not sure the same can be said of the decision to attempt to move the pistol dates. There are now CMP rifle matches clearly in conflict with the July dates for pistol, and the CMP is refusing to budge on their dates for pistol, I think, for a very good reason. I suppose it will be January before this is sorted?

Just one of the comments on why their competitor committee recommended the change in location to the NRA:
"CMP refused to change their schedule for 2017 and forced NRA to either have 25-50 competitors for LR and 20-30 for Mid range or move the matches. The schedule was killing 2 shooting disciplines which to me was unacceptable to the competitors."

http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/inde ... opic=33251

- Dave

I hope the dates for pistol the NRA posted stick or I can't make it this year. If CMP draws that line in the sand, that could force an early move to Cardinal! Even if Cardinal has yet to run a match, based on what I have see done there, I believe they could get it ready in time.