TargetTalk

Since the CMP service pistol rule change have any of you had sucsess or dabbled in anything other than 1911 or M9? I'm asking for a few reasons, but the main one is pure curiosity. I have no doubt a Sig 210 or 220 Super Match are accurate but is anyone using them? I may have the inclination to purchase a new pistol that's not a 1911 or M9 and wonder people are trying.

BTW, I tried a CZ97 a few years back and was pleased with it on the short line but at 50 yards it wasn't accurate enough.

Thanks

Brian

Take a look at the thread on the Bullseye Forum under Equipment. It is about the Springfield XD match in 9MM and has some pictures posted that were shot by one of the AMU shooters Adam Sokolowski. Impressive even at 50.

Interesting, I have an XDM in .45 and frankly, its terrible. The best 10shot group @25 is about 3" and @ 50yds maybe I can hit a garbage can cover. I've tried lead and jacketed heads and really not much difference except the jacketed loads are a bit more consistent. Large but consistent. Its ok for close up steel shooting but bullseye forget it. Thinking of getting a Bar-sto bbl for it, but don't know if its worth it. Any ideas out there????

I use a Sig Hammerli P210-5 longslide for Australian Service pistol.
A number of our top shooters are also using a P210 Super Target
for WA1500 (PPC).
The factory barrel is very good for jacketed but I changed to a
aftermarket IGB barrel to shoot lead (slower twist).
2 1/2" to 3" group from a barricade at 50yds.

I looked at every gun on the CMP service pistol list. After months of research I purchase a Sig P210 Legend Target. It is an extremely high quality gun and a pleasure to shoot. I am currently getting things together for 50yd testing in the Ransom Rest. Time and testing will tell if I made the right choice.

tenx9 wrote:Interesting, I have an XDM in .45 and frankly, its terrible. The best 10shot group @25 is about 3" and @ 50yds maybe I can hit a garbage can cover. I've tried lead and jacketed heads and really not much difference except the jacketed loads are a bit more consistent. Large but consistent. Its ok for close up steel shooting but bullseye forget it. Thinking of getting a Bar-sto bbl for it, but don't know if its worth it. Any ideas out there????

I have the XDM 5.25 in both 9MM & 45. The 9MM is more accurate out of the box but my 45 will do much better than what you are describing.

Both have custom triggers. What jacketed loads are you shooting?

Springfield is offering a free XDM 5.25 for the top 20 shooters that make the P100 using an XDM at Camp Perry this year.

- Dave

Brian James wrote:Since the CMP service pistol rule change have any of you had success or dabbled in anything other than 1911 or M9? I'm asking for a few reasons, but the main one is pure curiosity. I have no doubt a Sig 210 or 220 Super Match are accurate but is anyone using them? I may have the inclination to purchase a new pistol that's not a 1911 or M9 and wonder people are trying.

BTW, I tried a CZ97 a few years back and was pleased with it on the short line but at 50 yards it wasn't accurate enough.

Thanks

Brian

3 questions:

1) Are you already Distinguished?
2) Do you have a purpose-built 1911 or M9 "service pistol" already?
3) Are you looking to buy a new pistol for shits-and-giggles, or to (go Distinguished|win EIC matches)?

I found that the best I can achieve with the powders I have is. 4.4 gr Bullseye with a Nosler 180 match bullet. I've gone up and dwn with the powder and that's about it. I also tried the Atlanta Arms match load and the results at 50y are similar. Maybe less flyers but still up there. My 200g hardcast lead loads I use in my wadgun are really bad. My 1911will literally punch 1 hole at 25 yards with lead. Maybe its the powder, I was thinking of using W231. The gun functions flawless and hardly ever jams, but at least my gun the accuracy is disappointing. Any ideas will be helpful, thanks

have you talked with Springfield about it...

tenx9 wrote:I found that the best I can achieve with the powders I have is. 4.4 gr Bullseye with a Nosler 180 match bullet. I've gone up and dwn with the powder and that's about it. I also tried the Atlanta Arms match load and the results at 50y are similar. Maybe less flyers but still up there. My 200g hardcast lead loads I use in my wadgun are really bad. My 1911will literally punch 1 hole at 25 yards with lead. Maybe its the powder, I was thinking of using W231. The gun functions flawless and hardly ever jams, but at least my gun the accuracy is disappointing. Any ideas will be helpful, thanks

+1 on talking to Springfield

Which XDM 45 do you have? My 4.5" can't compete with my 5.25" and my 5.25" 45 isn't as good as my 5.25" 9MM. The barrel on my 9MM seems to be a tighter fit than my .45.

My 45 load is 185gr JHP 4.7 of WST (soft shooting)

- Dave

Its the XDM match with the 5.25" bbl. But thx for the reload info. I know friends who use that powder. I'll borrow a taste and see what happens

vito

john bickar wrote:
3 questions:

1) Are you already Distinguished?
2) Do you have a purpose-built 1911 or M9 "service pistol" already?
3) Are you looking to buy a new pistol for shits-and-giggles, or to (go Distinguished|win EIC matches)?

Hi John

Good questions. First let me say I was a serious ISSF shooters for a number of years and in the past few started competing in MLAIC matches. I've shot a few bullseye matches in NNY State and am wanting to work towards competing at Camp Perry one day.

I am not distinguished but something I would consider pursuing though admittedly harder as a Canadian given the travel requirements.

Do not own a purpose built service pistol 1911 or M9. I do own a SA RO in 45. Previously owned a Marvel 1911 and Kart 22 conversion.

I'm lookin to purchase a pistol that is competitive for the time being and perhaps slightly different. For example if permitted I'd be tempted to purchase a Pardini GT9 or 45. The Sig 210 and Super Match appeal to me though availability is scarce.

A tined M9 would be an option but can only find the odd Wilson 92 combat for sale up here.

Pistols like the SA XDM, Gkocks etc.... Are readily available but wonder if they are accurate enough and have decent triggers. I appreciate they won't be like a 1911.

Brian

Brian James wrote:

john bickar wrote:
3 questions:

1) Are you already Distinguished?
2) Do you have a purpose-built 1911 or M9 "service pistol" already?
3) Are you looking to buy a new pistol for shits-and-giggles, or to (go Distinguished|win EIC matches)?

Hi John

Good questions. First let me say I was a serious ISSF shooters for a number of years and in the past few started competing in MLAIC matches. I've shot a few bullseye matches in NNY State and am wanting to work towards competing at Camp Perry one day.

I am not distinguished but something I would consider pursuing though admittedly harder as a Canadian given the travel requirements.

Do not own a purpose built service pistol 1911 or M9. I do own a SA RO in 45. Previously owned a Marvel 1911 and Kart 22 conversion.

I'm lookin to purchase a pistol that is competitive for the time being and perhaps slightly different. For example if permitted I'd be tempted to purchase a Pardini GT9 or 45. The Sig 210 and Super Match appeal to me though availability is scarce.

A tined M9 would be an option but can only find the odd Wilson 92 combat for sale up here.

Pistols like the SA XDM, Gkocks etc.... Are readily available but wonder if they are accurate enough and have decent triggers. I appreciate they won't be like a 1911.

Brian

OK, thanks. Given your answers, I don't really have much advice to offer you; if your answers to #1 or #2 had been "yes", I would have advised to stick with what you have.

Last year's rule changes changed the service pistol game so dramatically that I don't think anyone knows yet what the full consequences will be. (I'll save my full opinion on the rule changes for another thread.)

My hunch: the 1911 will rule; accurized M9s/92s just lost about half of their resale value overnight, but still will be competitive for those who own them; and very few people will win anything of note with anything other than a 1911 or pre-2015 accurized M9/92.

I base this on the fact that I switched nothing other than ammunition in my 1990s-era 1911 "hardball" gun, and went from shooting 270s to shooting 280s and 290s. My PB in a "service pistol" NMC went up by 8 or 10 points within a handful of matches, versus 20+ years and dozens of matches shooting "hardball". I went from "92 is a good slow fire score" to shooting mid-to-high 90s at the long line on a regular basis. 8-10 points in a 30-shot match is a lot.

Furthermore, unlike the rule change that allowed the M9, this rule change has opened the door to a huge variety of new guns, and I don't think it will spur the innovations in gunsmithing that the M9 allowance did. Those innovations came from the service team gunsmiths, and I don't think they're going to spend time figuring out how to make an XDM or a Glock shoot at 50 yards, especially if those are not the sidearms that soldiers/sailors/Marines are carrying on duty.

I'd say your Springfield RO with ASYM NM .45 ammo or Nosler/Zero 185 handloads is your best bet, unless you're just itching to buy something new for the sake of buying something new, and tinker for the sake of tinkering.

I think Camp Perry results this year will tell us a lot. This game has changed completely.

Some folks might be swayed by wanting to shoot 9mm instead of .45. I'm guessing the 1911 will still rule. However, I'd also guess the Sig P210 and CZ-75 series guns will eventually rise to "best of the rest."

Given the myriad variations of some models in the "CZ-75 series," I wonder what will be allowed. For example, will the CZ-75B (DA/SA trigger, 4.6" barrel), CZ-75 Tactical Sport (SAO trigger, 5.4" barrel), and CZ-75 SP-01 (DA/SA trigger, 4.6" barrel) all be considered part of the "CZ-75 series" and all be allowed?

John bickar wrote:

I base this on the fact that I switched nothing other than ammunition in my 1990s-era 1911 "hardball" gun, and went from shooting 270s to shooting 280s and 290s. My PB in a "service pistol" NMC went up by 8 or 10 points within a handful of matches, versus 20+ years and dozens of matches shooting "hardball". I went from "92 is a good slow fire score" to shooting mid-to-high 90s at the long line on a regular basis. 8-10 points in a 30-shot match is a lot.

I think Camp Perry results this year will tell us a lot. This game has changed completely.

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That could not have been a more correct statement. So much so that I am thinking about shooting my Service Pistol instead of my wad gun this fall to see where I can get with it.

Brian James wrote: I'm lookin to purchase a pistol that is competitive for the time being and perhaps slightly different. For example if permitted I'd be tempted to purchase a Pardini GT9 or 45. The Sig 210 and Super Match appeal to me though availability is scarce.

Brian

Unfortunately, the Pardini GT45 is not on the CMP Approved Service Pistol list. I have been searching for a military or operations group that issues them. I would love to shoot my GT in Service Pistol.

I was surprised that the HK mk23 wasn't listed as an approved pistol.

sparky wrote:Some folks might be swayed by wanting to shoot 9mm instead of .45. I'm guessing the 1911 will still rule. However, I'd also guess the Sig P210 and CZ-75 series guns will eventually rise to "best of the rest."

Given the myriad variations of some models in the "CZ-75 series," I wonder what will be allowed. For example, will the CZ-75B (DA/SA trigger, 4.6" barrel), CZ-75 Tactical Sport (SAO trigger, 5.4" barrel), and CZ-75 SP-01 (DA/SA trigger, 4.6" barrel) all be considered part of the "CZ-75 series" and all be allowed?

If you check out the results from the P100 this year for pistol, the Top 7 shot Beretta, #8 was a Clark 1911, #9 was a SA XDM.

Looks like 4 XDM shooters made the P100.

I'm planning on shooting Beretta next year.