I am unable to hold the grip of my pistol securely and I thought that is always the way it is until recently I got to try out someone else's free pistol and air pistol. They fit like a glove.
I think I am going to sand my grip to fit my hand now. But first of all, what is a secure grip? How do I start? I shoot pistol right handed, and currently has a rink grip. I find out my problem is that my hand is too small for a medium size grip, but too big for small size.
In order for me to feel the most comfortable with the grip, my thumb web has to touch the grip. In order to do so, I will end up rotating my palm towards the front and that means the thumb web is no longer directly opposing the corresponding area of the grip. The front sight will then be off to the left. To correct the sight picture problem, I have to press my right hand towards the left edge of the grip by rotating my palm back. I would then get weak support from the base of fingers. The hypothenar can barely touches the grip and provides no support. I ended up getting tired very quickly. Meanwhile my thumb web is far away from the grip, as the grip presses against my thenar and I can move no further forward to press my thumb web.
Should I sand that bulge part (thenar) until the thumb web is finally touching the grip? It looks like I have to take 1/2" off the least in order to make my thumb web to touch its correct groove.
Secure grip
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Secure grip
Last edited by conradin on Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Secure grip
Read this first: http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/acad ... istol.ashx - Right Hand Position
Then, first sand off the high spots, then fill in the voids with two part wood filler. It's quite a simple job.
Mask off any part of the grip you don't want putty in. It will save you a lot cleaning later.
Hope this helps
Then, first sand off the high spots, then fill in the voids with two part wood filler. It's quite a simple job.
Mask off any part of the grip you don't want putty in. It will save you a lot cleaning later.
Hope this helps
Re: Secure grip
From what you described, you have short index trigger finger.
Try to work on getting trigger back first, that would be much easier than modifying the grip. It takes a long time to understand grip modification. Focus on the grip might wrong foot you on proper shooting focus. Focus on grip might be an "autistic" passion that might not contribute much.
There is an old Russian shooting adage, "Grip is not suppose to be comfortable."
Try to work on getting trigger back first, that would be much easier than modifying the grip. It takes a long time to understand grip modification. Focus on the grip might wrong foot you on proper shooting focus. Focus on grip might be an "autistic" passion that might not contribute much.
There is an old Russian shooting adage, "Grip is not suppose to be comfortable."
Re: Secure grip
It doesn't need to be "secure," as much as it needs to be repeatable. You don't have to use a death grip for either air or free pistol. Puttying the heck out of your grip until it fits perfectly will have two unintended consequences:
1) If you gain or lose weight, it won't fit perfectly anymore. Even the temperature or your level of hydration will affect the fit (especially on a free pistol with a wrap-around grip)
2) The more your hand presses on the grip in ANY direction other than front to back along the barrel axis, the more minor variations in the fit or grip pressure will push the pistol off axis. Take a look at any of the various pistol group diagnostic targets, and count the various problems an inconsistent grip can cause.
The features of a grip (grooves, palmshelf, etc.) only need to provide indexing structures to help you achieve exactly the same grip every time. The thing you want is consistency, and the MOST consistent pressure you can apply to the grip in any off-axis direction is ZERO. If you are applying pressure with your finger tips, pinky or your thumb, you've already set yourself up for trouble. Yes, you can learn to shoot well with your hand wrapped firmly all around the grip, but it's harder than eliminating all those off axis forces entirely.
I firmly believe that carefully molding the grip to inside of the palm is also going to cause issues. If it fits perfectly at some given grip pressure, I will bet the pistol will move and/or recoil differently if you vary your grip pressure. I haven't attacked any of my grips in that area to a great extent, but I think I already have a bit of daylight in the palm area on most of my pistols. The top bullseye shooter in the Boston area shoots a Marvel conversion on a .45 frame. No funny grooves, thumb rests, etc. He's got big enough hands that I'm sure he's got nothing but air on the inside of his palm. I shot a High Standard with the "military" (.45 -like) frame for years. The only pressure was on the front & rear of the frame. I like the feel of a more sculpted grip, but at least for precision events, I shot the High Standard as well or better than either my Pardini or Benelli standard pistols. I find it very easy to fall into bad habits with my finger tips & thumb when I have a more form fitting grip. It doesn't take much finger tip or thumb pressure to pull/push a ten out into the nine ring.
I have a free pistol that will swing quite a bit from left to right if I vary my grip pressure, even with NO finger tip or thumb pressure. It feels very "secure" & comfy, but something isn't right. Some part of my hand is pushing off-axis, and I need to remove the wood there, I just haven't figured out quite where yet.
1) If you gain or lose weight, it won't fit perfectly anymore. Even the temperature or your level of hydration will affect the fit (especially on a free pistol with a wrap-around grip)
2) The more your hand presses on the grip in ANY direction other than front to back along the barrel axis, the more minor variations in the fit or grip pressure will push the pistol off axis. Take a look at any of the various pistol group diagnostic targets, and count the various problems an inconsistent grip can cause.
The features of a grip (grooves, palmshelf, etc.) only need to provide indexing structures to help you achieve exactly the same grip every time. The thing you want is consistency, and the MOST consistent pressure you can apply to the grip in any off-axis direction is ZERO. If you are applying pressure with your finger tips, pinky or your thumb, you've already set yourself up for trouble. Yes, you can learn to shoot well with your hand wrapped firmly all around the grip, but it's harder than eliminating all those off axis forces entirely.
I firmly believe that carefully molding the grip to inside of the palm is also going to cause issues. If it fits perfectly at some given grip pressure, I will bet the pistol will move and/or recoil differently if you vary your grip pressure. I haven't attacked any of my grips in that area to a great extent, but I think I already have a bit of daylight in the palm area on most of my pistols. The top bullseye shooter in the Boston area shoots a Marvel conversion on a .45 frame. No funny grooves, thumb rests, etc. He's got big enough hands that I'm sure he's got nothing but air on the inside of his palm. I shot a High Standard with the "military" (.45 -like) frame for years. The only pressure was on the front & rear of the frame. I like the feel of a more sculpted grip, but at least for precision events, I shot the High Standard as well or better than either my Pardini or Benelli standard pistols. I find it very easy to fall into bad habits with my finger tips & thumb when I have a more form fitting grip. It doesn't take much finger tip or thumb pressure to pull/push a ten out into the nine ring.
I have a free pistol that will swing quite a bit from left to right if I vary my grip pressure, even with NO finger tip or thumb pressure. It feels very "secure" & comfy, but something isn't right. Some part of my hand is pushing off-axis, and I need to remove the wood there, I just haven't figured out quite where yet.
Re: Secure grip
My grip cannot be repeated easily, so there is no consistency. The closest repeatable position that I can achieve, as I have written above, is the one that gives me a sight picture that has the front sight essentially completely veered to the left. If I don't touch carve the grip, then the alternative is to adjust the grip angle of the pistol itself.
The most important question I want to know is: Does my thumb web supposedly have to touch the grip (to the corresponding groove).
Damn I need a coach! :(
The most important question I want to know is: Does my thumb web supposedly have to touch the grip (to the corresponding groove).
Damn I need a coach! :(
Re: Secure grip
ALL of your hand with the exception of the trigger finger should contact the grip evenly.conradin wrote:The most important question I want to know is: Does my thumb web supposedly have to touch the grip (to the corresponding groove).
The "main contact areas" are the web between the thumb and trigger finger, the middle finger, and the back of your hand near the wrist.
Read the link that I posted, it´s all there. Aso refer to Nygord's notes about grip fitting.
Hope this helps
Re: Secure grip
[quote]Damn I need a coach! :([/quote]
Garry is the coach of MIT Pistol Club that just won the collegiate national championship.
Garry is the coach of MIT Pistol Club that just won the collegiate national championship.
Re: Secure grip
A few minor corrections:seamaster wrote:Garry is the coach of MIT Pistol Club that just won the collegiate national championship.Damn I need a coach! :(
Garry? I assume you mean me, and it's Doug (White). The "G" is a carry over from an ancient college nickname: "Da Gwhite" (It helps if you say it out loud)
I HELP coach the MIT team. After the team lost its varsity status due to budget cuts in 2009, the Coach (Will Hart) continued (unpaid) for a year. He retired, and a group of volunteer coaches stepped up to help run the team. I am one of five guys that help make it all work. The students are also AMAZING. As a "Club Sport" they have taken over an enormous amount of the organizational process, and they do a phenomenal job. We also have a lot of good financial support from Alumni, and are in some ways better funded now than when we were a varsity sport. With luck, we should be able to afford a paid full-time Coach in a few years. One problem with 5 coaches is that the students have to sift through a lot of different perspectives, which can be confusing. Most of what we teach has been made as consistent as we can, but there are some differences of opinion...
As for the Championship, we won the Women's National Championship (for the third year in a row). If we can ever figure out how to coach free pistol more effectively, maybe we will win the open Championship (again).
Re: Secure grip
What's with that? Is it simply meant to underscore the importance of repeatability above everything?seamaster wrote:...There is an old Russian shooting adage, "Grip is not suppose to be comfortable."
Grip is a pretty complex topic, and many of the variables involved are hard to quantify. Repeatability is a good example. It isn't clear to me how I can tell if my grip is the same every time I pick up the gun, and if it is not, how it is differing and by how much from the last time. Similarly, I have to confess that the "comfort" referred to in the old Russian adage is not quite straigtforward. Handling several different guns might let me rank order them in terms of personal comfort with the grip, but I would not bet too much that if I did it again in a week's time my rank order would be the same, and in any case I would be hard pressed, I think, to state in objective terms just what I meant by "comfort".
-Marty-
Re: Secure grip
My God, get a grip man!