TargetTalk

I've been having issues recently with my position collapsing to the left. At the start of the shoot my left arm is pretty much straight. However, after about 7 shots my position has collapsed and the pistol grip (Gemini stock) ends up pushing into my left elbow, which is now very much underneath the rifle. Obviously this affects the recoil and where the rifle naturally sits. I think the issue is from where the sling pulls but if I have it any further to the right I feel like I'm falling over. Likewise if I start with the left elbow any further out to the left.

I know offering advice based purely on a description is tricky but if anyone has any ideas I'd be very grateful.

Many thanks.

I also shoot the Gemini although mine is the first model so it does not have an adjustable pistol grip. If yours is the newer model all you need to do is swing the grip to the right. If yours is like mine, when you are down and stretching back try to bring your left arm as far forward as you can. That should help you clear your elbow. Also, I have found when I load from the top my elbow wants to creep left. Be aware of this.

I'm not so sure the answer will be that simple; it might be, but there could be many other causes. Obvious thoughs are that the sling is not tight enough, or that the jacket is slipping over your shoulder, or that the sling is stretching. Perhaps your position is a little low, so once you settle (and joints stretch), it's all too low. Maybe the buttplate doesn't fit, and is working loose?

Thanks for the replies, Bugman I've already got the pistol grip offset all the way to the right!

Tim, the jacket is a good fit (from Pippa), sling if anything feels too tight and it's pulling me over. The position doesn't feel overly low (I try to avoid that) and the buttplate contact is solid. I will have a look at sling placement and level of position today however.

Watch other experienced shooters body position and how they set up. Failing that a good book on prone shooting may help.
I cannot understand why you have the sling pulling from inside the arm where all the nerve and blood vessels can cause a massive pulse, it is usually accepted to have it slightly to the left if anything.
Photos can help.
Do you have access to a Coach to get you out of what sounds like an unstable position.
Have you tried dropping the Butt between shots to maintain your NPA.
You could even have too tight a sling which is gradually pulling you over

Shot at a competition today, I moved the sling further to the middle of my arm and that seemed to make things a bit better, wasn't being pulled over by it. A few photos were taken there and having studied them, I think it's my right shoulder that's causing the problem. It looks very high and my entire upper body is leaning over to the left. Whilst it's certainly very stable obviously throughout the shoot it leans more and more, hence the grip problem.

So if I wanted to lower my right shoulder, I imagine by sticking my right elbow out a bit further I can achieve this. I assume I would also have to move the buttplate down a tad? Or will just moving the buttplate down slightly have the same effect?

Cheers

Maybe, but maybe not. Dropping the butt down (assuming that it was the right height to level the muzzle with the target) will change the position and angle of your right arm; the elbow would settle further from the body, and your hand would come onto the grip from a different angle. If the buttplate was much too high, the new arm position may be more natural, but you may need to alter the length of the butt (it would be effectively shorter), and the grip.

So in lowering the buttplate I'd also have to lengthen it a bit and re do the grip?

Maybe. If you lower the butt to lower your right shoulder, your upper arm won't sit so close to your body. Do make sure the hook isn't catching on your arm, so you are twisting your shoulder around.

Noted, thanks.

Do you shoot on a big angle? If so maybe try shooting with a slightly straighter body position. Also check where your left elbow is in relation to your left eye (not in it hopefully) if you elbow gets to much under stock or inside your left eye your forearm may collapse outwards , which will lower grip into your elbow area. The difference is very little between good and not so good probably 1/2 inch or so. When trying this out try first without jacket on move elbow both ways to get a feel for what is happening and think about triangles (upper arm lower arm and sling)

Cheers

iMac

After a horrifically painful outdoor shoot at the weekend I went into the range on Monday determined to fix it. I did exactly what you just suggested, I straightened the mat and shortened the stock a fair bit. I also placed my left elbow in the correct position before clipping into the rifle, previously I had just got down with the rifle. Seems to have solved the issue, the hold is also far more steady.

Out of interest what was the difference before and after in the butt length? I'll understand notches on the extension rods as I shoot a Gemini too.

Getting into position properly always helps. I cringe at my club whenever someone flops down, clips onto the rifle, and then wriggles and strains against the sling to move their elbows into the right place. It's so much easier to push out the supporting elbow before shouldering the rifle (preferably by holding the butt not the grip), but some folks never learn.

Hi Tim,

I shortened the butt by 2 segments, handstop back just under 2 segments too. I also moved the hook into a more central position. Cards yesterday were appalling but think that was entirely me...

How about grinding down the pistol grip to get adequate clearance

mark

groverdog1 wrote:How about grinding down the pistol grip to get adequate clearance

mark

I think the contact was a symptom of a slightly unstable position, rather than the grip just being a little wide, so even if cut the position may just have collapsed a little more.

Dezzick,

two notches front and back would be about 3cm. That would certainly allow you to straighten up your torso. Have you found the angle of the grip needed to be tweaked at all?

Tim-

I found I needed to rotate it a bit as my arm was coming in from a wider angle, but nothing drastic.

Glad I could help

Me too.