TargetTalk

Anyone have first hand evidence in the way of a blood test that might show wet tumbling to be safer than dry tumbling cleaning? Meaning a drop in lead levels after switching to wet cleaning. Thanks.

I am sure it is a little bit better because less dust will get into the air where it can be aspirated.

However most people find common sense precautions to be adequate.

Run your tumbler in a well ventilated area, or even outdoors if possible.

Do not eat or drink while you are reloading and if you are shooting indoors, shoot in a well ventilated indoor range, or wear a respirator.

Wash your hands after handling fired brass, cleaning guns, or shooting.


I have not had my lead levels tested, but this is from a doctor I know, and an Environmental engineer.


Most high blood lead levels result from shooting indoors in poorly ventilated conditions, or so I have been told.

I had my blood and urine checked for heavy metals last year,
I have the test done every 5 years.
my results were in the high normal range.

I cast bullets,
wet and dry to clean my brass.
Handle lead bullets while reloading.
Shoot at an indoor range.
Have been doing this for 50 years.

As Isabel says, just use common sense and you will be fine.

I do not shoot indoors. I use gloves when reloading, but just had another blood test that came in at 15.6. Only thing I might need to change is to tumble outside instead of in my garage. Will wet help, I don't know.

dmw6455 wrote:I do not shoot indoors. I use gloves when reloading, but just had another blood test that came in at 15.6. Only thing I might need to change is to tumble outside instead of in my garage. Will wet help, I don't know.

is it possible that your elevated lead is coming from somewhere else?

Although 15.6 is not dangerous for an adult from my understanding.


It seems to be that doctors are quick to blame shooting, rather than looking at other possible environmental factors.


Not casting any blame here, but are you a smoker, and if so, do you smoke at the range, or in your garage?
Do you work with batteries, or weld? Just a couple of possibilities.

Don't smoke. I shoot bullseye pistol and rimfire benchrest competitively. Run a cabinet shop and spray my own finishes which are lead free.

dmw6455 wrote:Don't smoke. I shoot bullseye pistol and rimfire benchrest competitively. Run a cabinet shop and spray my own finishes which are lead free.

In my mind rim fire bench rest would be a bigger problem than bullseye pistol. Think about how much closer your nose and mouth are to the chamber.

15.6 is no where near dangerous.
They do not take extreme action till you reach near 50.0.

Also there is no ordinary test for lead.
The test is for heavy medals, which can mean you have elevated numbers
For Zinc, Tin, as well as lead, Etc.

You have no need for concern.

Handling solid form lead, ( bullets) is not a hazard. Entry into the body is mainly through inhalation or ingestion. Now, if a solvent is combined with lead dust, particles, fragments, etc.. The possibility of through the skin absorbtion increases.. Leaded gasoline is a good example of a compound of lead that can be absorbed.. Lead Battery acid is highly toxic.. I have spent my entire life, from early childhood to present exposed to lead. Far more than the average human.. My lead levels were monitored during my tenure as rangemaster for a large police dept.. The BLL's were always in the mid to low teens. As Isabel mentioned.. It's common sense.. Be aware..I have always been a germ freak.. Therefore it has never been an issue for me to keep my hands / fingers away from my face/eyes/nose/mouth..

I have not tested high in a few years after moving all brass cleaning outside. I run my dry tumblers outside, include a dryer sheet in the media and separate upwind with a mask and gloves. The residue from lead styphnate (part of the primer compound) is still present in spent cases as well as other residue. I also limit my indoor shooting of center fore ammo to nranges with good ventilation. If you have a tumbling area inside, take a few swipes with a wet dust cloth and see how much residue is on surfaces. All this can be airbourne and inhaled. Not good.

In all my years of hand loading shotgun, rifle, and pistol, casting bullets and drinking liquid while doing these things, mining lead from a dirt background and tumbling bullets, I have never had high lead levels unless I shoot indoors in some places. All the people I know are in this same camp except half don't cast. When running matches at two indoor ranges and doing all the rest of these things, my lead level went up to 40. I stopped shooting indoors there while continuing all the rest, and the level went down to 13 in a matter of a few months. The only precaution I take is to wash my hands after casting, specifically if I handle some dusty dross or clean up some accumulated dust. If you do less than this, don't worry about it. Living in Missouri makes it more likely for me to have high lead because it is in our ground in its pure form, but still, none of my friends that shoot have a problem as long as they are careful when shooting indoors. In the 50's a high lead level was 60 and now it is 10 which is lower than typical in some areas. In 10 more years it will be 3 and one of causes of global warming.

Isabel1130 wrote: It seems to be that doctors are quick to blame shooting, rather than looking at other possible environmental factors.

Isabel1130,

Isn't the AMA one of the larger anti-gun groups in the country? Correct me if I am wrong. Weren't physicians even being encouraged to ask patients if they owned firearms? Somehow just being a gun owner now means that one has adopted an "unhealthy lifestyle"!

mr alexander wrote:Somehow just being a gun owner now means that one has adopted an "unhealthy lifestyle"!

Not exactly. The presence of firearms in the home is a known risk factor in suicide. I should note that there has been recent research showing that suicide among middle aged and older males in the US is increasing as a cause of death. So it's not that the presence of guns per se indicates an unhealthy lifestyle, but the presence of guns in the home of a person with depression is a risk factor for suicide. Firearms are also a health risk to children if they are not securely stored. If a physician is entitled to inquire about factors in the home which may affecting a child's health, like adequate nutrition, etc. it is logical to include inquiries regarding firearms and if they are secured.

I'm just stating the rationale as presented, and I'm not going to try to defend it. I'm just saying a case can be made and there is no benefit to approaching the subject with mockery.

Oh, and as far as blood lead levels are concerned, I got some moderately high numbers a while ago - I think the biggest problem was lead from the primers that remained in the brass, but I don't know for sure. I started using D-Lead soap and they eventually came down to a jot above normal. I'd heard D-Lead was in mandatory use at a local lead-acid battery factory in the area and some of the labs where I work also use it if they handle heavy metals

Roger

RandomShotz
I thought that Mercury was no longer used in primers.

The problem with putting info on a form, "do you have a gun in the house" is who gets the info.
Almost all doctors use computers to store patient info.
The way this government is going to liberal socialism, the day may come when they use the data to confiscate firearms.
What if a person had a temporary depression, was given a anti-depression drug for 2 weeks to a month,
It will be on his or her record forever.
Even posting on gun related forums, like here, who knows who is watching and collecting information.

Don't think it can happen here, all you have to do is look at Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

A lawyer once said, be careful what you say and write, it can come back to kick you in the rear end.

If children are in a home. A gun owner should practice safe gun handling and storage.

Yes, mercury is no longer used in primers - it has been replaced by lead styphnate (lead 2,4,6-trinitroresorcinate).

The residue that remains in the brass is dry and, to a degree, friable which is how the lead gets airborne when handling spent brass and especially spent primers. Of course, the quantity involved is small but for those who shoot many thousands of rounds over a long time the total quantity may be significant. The only authority I have for this information are a couple of discussions with a shopowner who specializes in reloading and maybe a thread or two on this forum, so a grain or two of salt may be appropriate here. For myself, I think the range where I shoot has a pretty good ventilation system - I've been there at closing and once the earplugs came out I could hear the roaring of the air mover - and I shoot coated bullets, so the most likely source of contamination was handling the spent brass and primers.

Roger

The suicide rates in this country are misleading.

People with a knowledge of firearms who are terminally ill or unable to live on their own, are going to pick an easy quick method like a gun.

A great number of suicides in the US are among the elderly. I have three elderly relatives who have chosen to go out this way.


Social Justice Warriors like to focus on the method, and ignore the fact that Japan, essentially a gun free country has a far higher suicide rate in general than the US does.


Lead has been politicized for quite some time now. It doesn't even make my top ten list of things I think are going to kill me......:-).

RandomShotz wrote:The presence of firearms in the home is a known risk factor in suicide. I should note that there has been recent research showing that suicide among middle aged and older males in the US is increasing as a cause of death. So it's not that the presence of guns per se indicates an unhealthy lifestyle, but the presence of guns in the home of a person with depression is a risk factor for suicide.
.....
I'm just stating the rationale as presented, and I'm not going to try to defend it. I'm just saying a case can be made and there is no benefit to approaching the subject with mockery.

Roger

This is incorrect, and it's worth noting because it is the kind of misleading statement frequently made by anti-gunners. There does seem to be an association in the U.S. between firearms in the home and suicide, but an association is NOT the same as a "risk factor". As Isabel pointed out, it's very likely that a desire to commit suicide would cause someone to obtain a gun. What matters is the overall suicide rate, and not the method of doing it. There is NO evidence that guns in homes affect the overall suicide rate in the U.S.

Here is a tip,

Use Cloths Dryer sheets in your dry tumbler. They cut down on the dust. Outside is a good idea.

I would think the bigger risk is de capping and cleaning primer pockets that is a filthy job.

RT

Trooperjake wrote:... Don't think it can happen here, all you have to do is look at Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

Sorry but I can't let that go without a response. Do some research and you will see that New Zealand has better gun laws (from a shooters point of view) than Australia by a country mile!

I apologize for using New Zealand as an example of extreme gun laws.
You do have more liberal gun laws than Australia.
But you do have to jump through more hoops than we do in most of America.
It is true that many American cities and States have extremely tight gun laws,
Which are more extreme than New Zealand.
Obama and many governors are looking to ban most if not all guns.
If we get a democrat President and a democrat Congress, there goes our 2nd Amendment.