TargetTalk

while the CMP and NRA High Power championships are returning to the previous format (pre-world championships) the NRA has decided to keep the smallbore championships at Bristol...

i didnt see anything about the CMP smallbore or air rifle camps at Camp Perry though...

Ltdave,
The NRA are liars. They promised two years and smallbore would be back at Perry. Just like them to destroy their Junior shooting program. As you can tell, I can't be more infuriated. Sorry for the post, but, they deserve it.
Chris

Very disappointing. The NRA competitions division is making a big mistake. They want the match at bristol to be the elite shooters only. Fine. Let them have the 25 or so shootrrs at bristol while I go to Ft Benning and shoot with 100 + of the worlds best.

The NRA didn't get the message when the competitors voted to return to Perry.

The NRA didn't get the message when the letter we sent to the NRA leaders and competitions committee.

The NRA will get the message when we vote with our feet!

In the letter from the CMP announcing the national matches schedule they state;

"Whether a clinic, course or match, the CMP is open to any and all suggestions on what events to schedule that will help to make our competitors' National Match opportunities even greater. Suggestions may be sent to competitions@thecmp.org by the end of December 2015."

Reading between the lines, it looks like they left the door wide open to us.

In my politely worded suggestion to Christine Sewell and the other good folks at the CMP, I am going to ask that they consider hosting a smallbore clinic similar to the small arms firing schools, and a couple days of conventional 3-P matches. I am also going to note that my sunhat and raincoat are already in the car, and I am ready to volunteer to help make it happen.

This suggestion is not just a reactive affront to the NRA's decision, it is fully in keeping with the will of Congress, again per the CMP:

"The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 40701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key “functions for the corporation:

To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors."

Maybe I'm naive, but I can hope positive suggestions to the CMP per their request and a willingness to assist may get us what we want.

Junior clinic is scheduled again for Perry. It's on the calendar.

Where is the calendar? Went to the NRA web site, and could not find it.

Did read the article by D. Willing trying to justify leaving small bore at Bristol, a range that is 15 miles away from the nearest decent cluster of hotels. And has no facilities for vendors.

Apparently they took a survey, and then decided to ignore the results based on cost. If they had that info, makes you wonder why they bothered with a survey.


The article alludes to the electronic target idea still being alive, although, apparently now, the CMP will be funding it, and not the NRA,

I like shooting at Bristol for their pistol regionals, but in my opinion, without an RV, and a generator, it would probably not be a fun match for either the competitors, or the people working it.

Isabel1130 wrote:Where is the calendar? Went to the NRA web site, and could not find it.

Did read the article by D. Willing trying to justify leaving small bore at Bristol, a range that is 15 miles away from the nearest decent cluster of hotels. And has no facilities for vendors.

Apparently they took a survey, and then decided to ignore the results based on cost. If they had that info, makes you wonder why they bothered with a survey.


The article alludes to the electronic target idea still being alive, although, apparently now, the CMP will be funding it, and not the NRA,

I like shooting at Bristol for their pistol regionals, but in my opinion, without an RV, and a generator, it would probably not be a fun match for either the competitors, or the people working it.

I received feedback from some folks that actually work at the Camp Perry/CMP and the reasons given (excessive cost) does not jive with what I was told.

For example, they NRA complained about the cost of renting each building they used for staff. The Theater was mentioned in this. I was told the daily rental of the theater for the national matches was $58!

Compare this to the 3 catered awards ceremonies held at a local restaurant/event center near Bristol. Average per plate catered dinner like that is $25 per head and capacity was around 100. The tickets were exactly that much to buy for non competitors so about 50% of those in attendance had paid. That means the cost of the awards dinner and rental of the room was probably around $1,250. Three of these events plus a BBQ at the final awards we are looking at in excess of $3600. 3 awards ceremonies at Camp Perry = $175, 3+ awards ceremonies at Bristol = $3600.

Unless they were getting the meals donated by a local business, I think the numbers the committee was told were misleading.

I got my schedule from the CMP mailing that I get all the time. Try them. Don in Oregon

A major part of the cost of Perry is the volunteer staffing, Perry requires 1 range officer /10 shooters and 1 line officer per 20 or something like that. I don't see how housing at Bristol could be cheaper, but a requirement for more volunteers would run up prices. Still, I would think that something like that could be worked out with the OHNG or with Ohio even.

As usual, we get bits and pieces of the relevant information, and often only get those after the final decision is made. I guess that our choices are to complain about it to each other, or band together to see that the issues are addressed.


Mike

"The NRA will get the message when we vote with our feet!"


No they won't. They will just shrug their shoulders and blame it on their catch all "sport is dying mem"

Or better yet, George Bush.... :-).

I received the "Bristol Decision" letter yesterday. It included a 2016 match schedule for Bristol. Since it was forwarded to me by the AZ State Association I am not certain if it is offical.

What concerns me more than staying at Bristol(shorter drive) is the fact that the conventional prone is only 2 days of shooting? One iron sight and one scope day. Hopefully it is a mistake.
July 9 packet pick up
July 10 metallic prone conv
July 11 any sight prone conv
July 12 metric prone irons
July 13 metric prone any
July 14 Dewar, Randle, Whistler, etc. and awards
July 15 3p conv. iron
July 16 3p conv any
july 17 3p metric iron
July 18 3p metric any drew cup and awards

If you are a prone shooter coming from the west 5 days of driving for 4 days of shooting. Doesn't sound pleasant to me.

kameljock wrote:I received the "Bristol Decision" letter yesterday. It included a 2016 match schedule for Bristol. Since it was forwarded to me by the AZ State Association I am not certain if it is offical.

What concerns me more than staying at Bristol(shorter drive) is the fact that the conventional prone is only 2 days of shooting? One iron sight and one scope day. Hopefully it is a mistake.
July 9 packet pick up
July 10 metallic prone conv
July 11 any sight prone conv
July 12 metric prone irons
July 13 metric prone any
July 14 Dewar, Randle, Whistler, etc. and awards
July 15 3p conv. iron
July 16 3p conv any
july 17 3p metric iron
July 18 3p metric any drew cup and awards

If you are a prone shooter coming from the west 5 days of driving for 4 days of shooting. Doesn't sound pleasant to me.

If this schedule is correct, you have to wonder how having it overlap with Pistol at Perry will produce any savings. Means they have to have two different sets of officials and volunteers at two different locations.

Isabel1130 wrote:

If this schedule is correct, you have to wonder how having it overlap with Pistol at Perry will produce any savings. Means they have to have two different sets of officials and volunteers at two different locations.

Different officials and the volunteers are from the Bristol Range

- Dave

dronning wrote:

Isabel1130 wrote:

If this schedule is correct, you have to wonder how having it overlap with Pistol at Perry will produce any savings. Means they have to have two different sets of officials and volunteers at two different locations.

Different officials and the volunteers are from the Bristol Range

- Dave

To some extent yes, but the NRA officials used for both competitions in the previous years, when small bore came right after pistol at Perry were the same people. A lot of the volunteers also. They come to Perry, and stay through July.

kilowhiskey wrote:In the letter from the CMP announcing the national matches schedule they state;

"Whether a clinic, course or match, the CMP is open to any and all suggestions on what events to schedule that will help to make our competitors' National Match opportunities even greater. Suggestions may be sent to competitions@thecmp.org by the end of December 2015."

Reading between the lines, it looks like they left the door wide open to us.

In my politely worded suggestion to Christine Sewell and the other good folks at the CMP, I am going to ask that they consider hosting a smallbore clinic similar to the small arms firing schools, and a couple days of conventional 3-P matches. I am also going to note that my sunhat and raincoat are already in the car, and I am ready to volunteer to help make it happen.

This suggestion is not just a reactive affront to the NRA's decision, it is fully in keeping with the will of Congress, again per the CMP:

"The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 40701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key “functions for the corporation:

To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors."

Maybe I'm naive, but I can hope positive suggestions to the CMP per their request and a willingness to assist may get us what we want.

Please take a moment and write the CMP and ask they consider taking charge of the smallbore/shooting competitions. I did and received a very nice reply. We all need to get involved to save our sport.

Colleagues,

This from SSSUSA http://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/11/3 ... -released/ posted November 3. As this is a Roberts Team selection year I encourage all to but feelings aside and attend the tryouts.

Best,

Hap

Note the four days of conventional prone, Metric Prone was taken out of the program and the 50-Yard Match was added to the Conventional Prone Championship restoring the 6400. "This action was in response to the numerous prone competitors’ requests."

"The Smallbore Rifle Championship Tournament Program will be posted online on March 1, 2016, with online registrations beginning April 1, 2016. As in the past, when a competitor or a coach registers, a confirmation will be mailed to them, squadding is issued at the time of registration. Entries will be limited to 200 competitors for the Metric Position, Conventional 3-Position, and Conventional Prone Championships.

Special awards ceremonies are being planned for each Championship. The Championships will feature an Amish dinner and awards presentation at the Das Dutchman Essenhaus Convention Center. All of these events will be attended by competitors, coaches, families, and representatives of the local communities."

So they cut the metric target cause its too hard and added back the 50 yard bucket target so everybody can feel good about theirself. Maybe next year they can give everybody a nice particapation trophy!! I think the wikepedia range is nice, the people are nice and the area is 100x better than perry.

I am walking into the middle of this, and I am not current on all the info, as I haven't been shooting for a few years.

I was thinking of starting shooting again next year, and was planning my schedule for next year.

So I looked up info about dates for Perry/smallbore National Matches.

Based on info I read a couple of year ago...about the move to Indiana...

It appears the NRA lied about moving to Indiana for just 2 years. Thanks for nothing... I like Perry, and went there a few times in the 1980's..

By the way, I don't mean to imply anything wrong with the range or people in Indiana: I am sure it is a fine range/people. It is just that we are messing with a long tradition here.

Now my question: the info I read about the course of fire for smallbore 2016 National Matches: it is back to a 6400 (good), but I read something worded a bit confusing that seemed to imply that the 3P and prone scores would be combined to select ONE National Smallbore Champion? No separate Prone and 3P National Champion? If that is the case, then I am done. Put the rifles back in the safe. I don't shoot 3P. Back to Archery and racing cars.

To add insult to injury, I was reading that they are going to add "fun" events at the matches at Perry? If they have the time/money for that, then they have the time/money to put smallbore back in where it belongs at Perry.

It seems to me with all of the millions of dollars the NRA has at their disposal, that they should be able to run the National Matches at a loss if necessary, to help promote the sport, and future NRA supporters/donors.


Jeff

Jeff,

There are three individual championships to be contested at Bristol, conventional prone; conventional position; and metric position. The Metric and Conventional position championships are each an NRA Smallbore 3-Position Championship.

The Conventional Prone Championship is a standalone championship.

For the past two years an overall NRA National Smallbore Rifle Champion, The "Iron Man", was named by combining all four championships. That person is awarded the Wigger Trophy. I think how the newest championship was described is what is causing the confusion about all being lumped into one..

The "fun" events at Camp Perry are CMP, not NRA events. Not that I don't agree with the rest of your statement.

2016 is an important year for prone shooters to attend the championships as it is a Roberts Team selection year. The top 12 shooters on the US Dewar International Postal Team will be named as the 2017 Roberts Team.

I hope this clears things up.

Look forward to meeting you at Bristol during prone.

Hap

Thanks HAP for the response. I was reading something online about the Championships, and I think the author was paraphrasing the official announcement, and didn't make it very clear, at least to me. It made no sense to me.

When I was very actively shooting 25 years ago, my recollection was that the prone events were more popular than the 3 position events. I just didn't want the prone events to become the red-headed step child of the 3 position events. The NRA has been turning ALL of the smallbore events into the second-class citizens very well all by themselves.

I will re-evaluate a trip to Indiana.

Thanks,

Jeff