TargetTalk

No the sky is NOT falling ...

The reason I ask is that I have a new passion in 10m Olympic Pistol ...

and the rules of the 10M game state that ALL PCP cylinder have a MAX 10 year life span before they need to be retired ...

EVEN if manufactures state that there cylinders have a 20 year life span .... if the date stamp on the cylinder of manufacture is older than 10 years you can't compete with the gun ....

yes I am sure they are safe at 11 years and above and yes you can use them in local competition as I doubt anyone will check the date stamp ....

but seriously how long do PCP air cylinders last for ?

Before they should be deemed unsafe to be filled ?

Most are a 200bar fill or 3000psi fill and most have burst discs in place and are rated for at least 300 bar for safety .... and if less than 2.5" in Diameter they never require a Hydro test ... but does that make them safe to use forever ?

Should they be Hydro tested after 10 years for safety , or 15 or 20 ?

if so can they even be hydro tested if so by whom and how much does it cost ?

So have there been catastrophic failures of air cylinders on PCP pistols and guns that have warranted this concern over the age of the actual cylinder ?

I have only heard of one in the Philippines a couple of years ago - when the owner of a custom stock maker got injured severely when a cylinder exploded in his hands ... I don't know any other details other than that.

I am sure there are plenty of 20+ year old PCP cylinders out there today on pistols and rifles that are still holding air and functioning correctly ... but should we be at all concerned .... ?

Thank you in advance for your 'educated' and 'intelligent' replies.

Not sure any airgun manufacturers would state 20 years today.

Some local comps will allow older.

Never had one go, but when they leak I replace them

If you truely have a passion, that means you want to compete, in our national comps here, we do inspect and any older than 10 are banned.

They are really not able to be hydro'd ... no one has the tool and rings to do it at a reasonable cost. Especially those with manometers. When I inquired here in ALB, NM I was told it would pretty much cost more than the cylinder was worth.

Easier to just buy a new cylinder.

All of your points are valid and I thank you for your reply ...

the point of my question is 'what is deemed safe' ...

the rules state 10 years and I will obviously abide by these rules for competitions.

But what I am more interested in is the evidence which proves any 10+ year cylinder is unsafe and will fail ... catastrophically.

I am sure that manufactures simply state the 10 year rule to add to there sales by all of us having to buy new cylinders when the old ones hit 10 years.

Perhaps I am wrong and if that's the case why aren't we hearing about 10+ year old cylinders failing left , right and centre .... ?

My FWB 55 is 14 years old - hold air and functions perfectly - am I really holding a live grenade with the pin pulled every time I shoot it because the cylinders are more than 10 years old ?

If I am then I really need to be re-eductated to the dangers of compressed air as do hundreds if not thousands of other 10m shooters who are using cylinders which are more than 10 years old.

Thanx again in advance for your thoughts, comments and replies.

All anyone can give you is opinion.
mine:
Are you holding a live grenade --- nope, don't think so.

Any failures of AR & AP cylinders I've heard of were from manufacturing defects or inferior quality materials (maybe thats a mfgr defect too). All of those were issued recalls. So the best bet there is to go onto mfgr websites and look up the recalls. I know Anschutz has a section for this ... I'd guess most others too.

How long do PCP air cylinders last for?

Nobody can give you a correct answer because it depends on a lot of factors.
From what type of metal (league) it's made of, how many times it has been filled, how stressed the material is, how it's been handled over the years, etc.
Morini and a couple of other manufactures had a 20 year limit on their cylinders a couple of years ago before EU legislation imposed the 10 year rule.
So my educated guess is that they will be good for at least that, assuming "normal" handling.

To test them, it would be more expensive than buying a new one, so it's not rational.

Read this thread, lot's of good info on the subject: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37099&hilit=cylinder+failure

Hope this helps

Thank you RMCA - for the link to an excellent thread which answered most of my questions.

Sincere thanx

James

Think of the O-rings as a type of safety, they will go before your cylinder ever would ,
I know people who still shoot old co2 FWB,s .
I have never heard of or doubt I ever will here of one blowing up in your face.
But if you want piece of mind change them every 10 years .
Morini used to give their cylinders 20year life span,
can only assume they changed back to 10 years to comply with ISSF ,they implemented the rule ,probably because the guy that made the rule sold cylinders (being sarcastic)
Cheers. S

Truthfully I feel they are cheap enough that it really doesn't matter. Lets say they are $200
and I only have 5 years left on mine. I spend so much more on driving back and forth to the range,
range membership, targets and all the other stuff that it really doesn't matter in the giant scheme of things.

I wonder how you would get on if you arrived at an ISSF comp and was shooting the Air Arms S400MPR. This rifle has an undated, integral cylinder. There are zero limitations on how long you can use the rifle for, the EU doesn't place any restrictions on rifles with integral cylinders as far as pressure testing is concerned. I am quite happily still shooting my around 2002 vintage AA S400 sporting rifle.

As far as I am aware the only cases of PCP sporting rifles failing catastrophically have been down to either filling with the wrong gas, or drilling the cylinder! I know of one incident where a Theoben Rapid was filled with Oxygen. It was hardly surprising when the rifle exploded on firing as the oxygen at pressure came into contact with the grease in the gun. The guy involved lost most of his fingers on his left hand and IIRC an eye, and had damage to his face and right hand too.

I have also heard about people drilling cylinders to directly fit a sling swivel stud. There are also those out there that try drilling the stock for a stud with the action still in the stock.

Both filling with LOX and drilling the cylinder should really be winning the perpetrator a Darwin Award, they certainly should not be being let loose with anything so dangerous to others as an airgun.

Alan

BigAl wrote:I wonder how you would get on if you arrived at an ISSF comp and was shooting the Air Arms S400MPR. This rifle has an undated, integral cylinder. There are zero limitations on how long you can use the rifle for, the EU doesn't place any restrictions on rifles with integral cylinders as far as pressure testing is concerned. I am quite happily still shooting my around 2002 vintage AA S400 sporting rifle.
Alan

From what I've heard ... circumstantially, is that you would need a dated receipt of purchase, and then expiration would be 10 years from that date. Myth/Fact(???) Seemed like a good explanation ... this was about 3 years ago I think, not an an ISSF event, but a USAS one.
This does apply for the Crosman CH2009 in USAS comps ... a sporter air rifle.

Not interested!

Frank in Fairfield wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:01 pm Not interested!

Have you noticed you're responding to a thread that's nearly seven years old? It was only bumped up by the recent spam attack.

That is why I was not interested.
I brought the spam attack to the attention of the moderator.