TargetTalk

Hello,

Been watching the ISSF World Cup prone matches on Youtube for quite awhile. The past Munich Finals this week was incredible. Near the end of every match the spectators begin clapping. At this match it seemed that clapping disrupted McPhail's shot and put him behind. Then the Russian maybe also distracted with the rude clapping made a bad shot.

Why is this allowed at these matches? They don't allow it in Golf or Tennis. I also believe there's rules for Football as well during the snap. I know NRA match has rules for disruptive loudness. Not only is it a nusance for the shooters it's annoying for fans watching. They should not allow this behavior and spectators should show some class.

I'll have to watch some of my videos of the last Olympics and see if it was allowed there.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49580

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46801

It is certainly allowed, and encouraged.

The top shooters train to make sure that it doesn't disturb them; it is now part of the sport.

What David said.

I don't think the finalists in a World Cup Final would be fazed by this at all - if they were then they didn't deserve to be there.
Personally, I rather enjoy it...

To be honest I hate it on a spectator's level. Was at the European Championships this year in Maribor and some clown was blowing a horn of some kind for all he was worth. I just wanted to force feed him it. Makes the finals hall thoroughly obnoxious. Yes, now we have to train for it, but man, I hate that guy, wherever he is.

I think that it's the ISSF's attempt to make the finals more exciting. Personally, I'd rather the crowd respect the shooters more and keep quiet during shots. As said before, this sort of thing is not tolerated in other sports where concentration is key to winning.

I checked the 2012 Olympics and they didn't allow the rude clapping disruption. Also checked the 2013 ISSF videos I have and it wasn't there but the 2014 ISSF events did. Wonder if the 2016 Olympics will allow it?

Maybe they should bring this to the golf and bowling tournaments and see how well it's accepted. Then the announcers won't need to whisper any more.

I've had people stand behind me while shooting prone, crossing their arms the entire string. That doesn't bother me but if they start clapping or making noise while standing behind me they're intentionally trying to influence my shooting and that's rude and a problem. I only shoot NRA matches so I'd alert the match director and put a stop to it. I've never seen that happen. It's just common courtesy not to bother people when they're shooting any sport.

Check out the ISSF Junior Cup in Suhl this year. I get the slow clap when the medals are being contended. I even enjoy it. The crowd in Suhl made the events unwatchable.

I have voiced my opinion before, here it is once more!

Making noise during the finals and the start from zero final are destructive to the sport.

Question: How does having a crowd 15 feet behind the shooters, yelling, clapping, blowing horns, etc. help determine who the best shooter is? Do they do the same thing for gymnastics, diving, figure skating.... NO, they do not!

The reason given is to make it more exciting for spectators and TV. I thought Olympic sports was about the athletes. About finding who is the BEST. Not about providing a spectacle. If you want a spectacle go watch WWE wrestling.

Oh, sure, you can say they just need to train for the distraction. Shooting is a sport of absolute concentration and perfection. Tell that to golfers and all the other Olympic sports, no other serious sport does this. The noise has crossed the line from simple crowd applause and cheering to the organizers asking the crowd to INTENTIONALLY DISTRACT the athletes. What other serious sport does that??

We are beginning to see the natural progression of encouraging noise and distracion. The ISSF has not established rules for what noise and what noise level is permissible. At a recent international competition it was obvious to many that a certain team had a distraction strategy. Several people were as close to the line as possible, about 10 feet from the athletes. They would abruptly yell loudly in an attempt to distract (maybe startle is a better word) the other athletes. They were careful to be quiet while their shooter was shooting. So..... How long until some athlete or country trains with a specific, loud, obnoxious, distracting noise in the background, then their team uses that noise to distract everyone else in the final??? Don't think that will happen? Sure it will. Nothing can be done about it, there are no rules as to what noise and what noise level is acceptable.

Again, my simple questions: How is the noise good for the athlete? How does the noise help determine who is the best shooter? What other Olympic sport encouages the spectators to intentionally distract the athletes?

My initial assertion that it is destructive to the sport. Yes, it is. The out of control noise and distraction in the final is turning shooting into a spectacle. WWE is a spectacle.... No one takes WWE seriously, it's a spectacle, a circus. Shooting is being turned into a circus, loosing credibility as a serious sport.

Don't even get me started on the start from zero final. That is the only thing more STUPID than encouraging distraction during a final.

My "opinion". Rant over.

+1 on the rant - all of it. I've started wearing both ear plugs and muffs to block out conversations on the line; a little difficult to hear the commands.

Mark

On the other hand the spectator clapping comes from the athletes themselves. Vast majority of the spectators are the athletes, coaches and other personnel. So these guys should know better, but if they still do it, that means they themselves don't mind.
Finally, mental toughness is such a big part of the sport that if you want to win bad enough, or more than the guy next to you, it would not matter...the ones who are less tough mentally are the one who will lose.
Perhaps I should ask a few of them how they feel about it...

Whatever happened to respect for fellow competitors? The day I set the national record at 500 my spotter had quietly signaled others, but not one sound came from him or anyone else except when he called a mark. I had no idea there was a small crowd watching. I was totally in the zone and the last thing I needed was a distraction. I want my fellow competitors to do their best and I try to show them every consideration. If I win it will be with honor, including pointing out to scorers when they make a mistake in my favor.

Mark

Couldnt disagree more. I think it makes it better to watch and also ahows who can cope with pressure better. They should bring it in in golf and then it might not be so damn boring. Oh and the Olympics isnt just about the competitors. The day when they think that nobody wants to watch it at all will be the day it is replaced by another sport

The next logical step is the finalists heckling each other before and during the match. Will be like inner city street basketball!!

Muffo wrote:Couldnt disagree more. I think it makes it better to watch and also ahows who can cope with pressure better. They should bring it in in golf and then it might not be so damn boring. Oh and the Olympics isnt just about the competitors. The day when they think that nobody wants to watch it at all will be the day it is replaced by another sport

Completely agree.

conradin wrote:On the other hand the spectator clapping comes from the athletes themselves. Vast majority of the spectators are the athletes, coaches and other personnel. So these guys should know better, but if they still do it, that means they themselves don't mind.
Finally, mental toughness is such a big part of the sport that if you want to win bad enough, or more than the guy next to you, it would not matter...the ones who are less tough mentally are the one who will lose.
Perhaps I should ask a few of them how they feel about it...

No, I can assure you that most of the athletes don't like it. The athletes who participate in noise making do it because; it was done to them, ISSF / organizers insist on it, everyone else is doing it, trying to distract athletes from other teams / countries. Yes, I have talked to many of them. No one "likes" it, some, (most) say it doesn't bother them.... Yes it does.

"Mental toughness is such a big part of the sport"???? I'll tell you what mental toughness is.... That last shot for the gold in the biggest match of your life. You've trained, sacrficed, competed for 10 years to get to this one moment.... This one shot. That requires mental toughness! Not having some imbecile squeaking on a bicycle horn while you are trying to make it.

How about this... If you ever go under the knife for surgery, lets play hard rock music and have a crowd of people yelling insults and trying to distract the surgeon. Same difference. Doctors are professionals, they should be mentally tough, right???? Don't know about you, but I want it nice and quiet so the surgeon can focus if he's cutting on me. I don't care how "mentally tough" you are, you can and will be distracted by the noise.

Dave, i agree with you to a point! My oldest has medaled internationally a few times under the herassment. But there needs to be limits and respect. There is a differece between a loud cheering crowd and herrasment of a specific shooter. Megaphones and noismakers should be forbidden as they are in most sports. Herassmsnt should be forbiddn. Its possible to be loud and have a good time with maintaining respect of the shooters

Allowing harrassment actually looks bad from an outsiders point of view i think.

David Levene wrote:

Muffo wrote:Couldnt disagree more. I think it makes it better to watch and also ahows who can cope with pressure better. They should bring it in in golf and then it might not be so damn boring. Oh and the Olympics isnt just about the competitors. The day when they think that nobody wants to watch it at all will be the day it is replaced by another sport

Completely agree.

I think that a certain degree of noise is acceptable. However, I'm a coach -- not a competitor. I train my shooters with distractions. Yes Suhl was noisy ... so I taped the WHOLE final audio ... removed the commands and looped the shooting and noise out to 1 hour. We play that (and others), both air & 22.

The discussion here is interesting, but it is like the discussions about the seat patch and shoe stiffness, and all of the other "new" rules & allowances. Does not mean a darn thing ... these complaints should be directed (if you feel so strongly) at your federation. Same for SFZ finals (Rick knows that I like them ... my shooters like them) the training for finals should be as intense as possible ... a bit off topic there.

As it is, as a coach who's federation pretty much ignores me ... the rules are the rules ... as they are written now and it's MY responsibility to get my shooters ready for the noise and the pressure of an SFZ final ... and be positive about it. No sense giving them a negative attitude going into a final.

Do I think the rules will start changing after Rio ... absolutely! Now what they will change to? .... as the old saying goes, be very careful what you ask for. :)

Now ... my own opinion, I don't mind the clapping ... but the airhorns, vuvuzelas, and stomping on a flexible floor indeed are rude ... even cowbells. But we train with them.

It seems to me that clapping in synch slowly then gradually getting faster is specifically done on purpose to raise the competitors heart rate. To me, it smacks of cheating and would not be tolerated in a sport such as snooker.