TargetTalk

I participate in a local weekly bullseye league. We shoot indoors on a range that is 25 yards long. One of the newer members in the group does not use a spotting scope at all.

He does quite well, scoring regularly in the middle 280's out of a possible 300. Claims that he's able to rely on using the same position, stance and grip from week to week. Feels that once it's zeroed in, he can trust the sights as they are.

Doesn't want a spotting scope because according to him, it is a mental distraction.

Have any of you tried doing this? Or, if you have one of them, how often and when is it being looked thru?

Might be why he's stuck in the 280s. I'd bet he doesn't clean many slow fire targets.

We had a good thread on this a few years ago. Search the archives for "scope" or "scoping".

I have never used a spotting scope on our league. If you shoot on the same range each week, why would you even need a scope, once you zero for that range your done a scope wont help you after that. I only use mine on outside ranges and then just to scope the first few shots to make sure my zero is right for that range which we shoot from 2 to 5 different ones over the season.

GunRunner wrote:If you shoot on the same range each week, why would you even need a scope, once you zero for that range your done a scope wont help you after that.

If you aren't using a scope then how else do you confirm that you're calling each shot correctly?

If you aren't calling each shot, and then confirming it, then how can you be confident in your technical performance?

What Dave said!

Don't get suckered by what others do: they don't know squat or they'd be champs.

Keep an open mind and see what you can see.

john bickar wrote:Might be why he's stuck in the 280s. I'd bet he doesn't clean many slow fire targets.

But to clean many slow fire targets one needs to be able to hold very close to the 10-ring. Very few people, even those with a perfect trigger technique and able to call shots every time perfectly, will ever be able to get there anyway, no matter how hard we try, if only for physiological reasons.

Did not have a spotting scope when first starting out; got one soon afterward. Couldn't imagine being without one now! I look

through mine after every fired round in Slow Fire. Doing so helps to confirm that a shot is being called correctly. There's a small

"Target Analysis Guide" taped to the inside of my gun box's lid. If a shot is not to call, I'll refer to it to determine why this happened.

It will tell me if I was heeling, breaking my wrist, thumbing, anticipating recoil, etc. Knowing what happened, corrective measures can

be taken for the next shot. Using one has been of great benefit. Will also peek through it after every 5 shot group that's fired on the

Timed and Rapid Fire targets. I do it for the same reasons; to confirm call and to take corrective measures for the next shot(s), if

there's a need for me to take any.

shaky hands wrote:

john bickar wrote:Might be why he's stuck in the 280s. I'd bet he doesn't clean many slow fire targets.

But to clean many slow fire targets one needs to be able to hold very close to the 10-ring. Very few people, even those with a perfect trigger technique and able to call shots every time perfectly, will ever be able to get there anyway, no matter how hard we try, if only for physiological reasons.

Not with that attitude, certainly.

john bickar wrote:Not with that attitude, certainly.

No matter the attitude but at a certain age the reality catches with you. And bites.

shaky hands wrote:

john bickar wrote:Not with that attitude, certainly.

No matter the attitude but at a certain age the reality catches with you. And bites.

I agree with John Bickar that a good attitude is important, not only in shooting, but in reaching any goal that one wishes to achieve in

life. However, shaky hands does raise a valid point about the effects aging has on one's abilities . I have been a regular Bullseye

shooter for over 36 years now. John had mentioned cleaning Slow Fire targets. I realize that anyone can post anything in forums like

this one. The truth? On a league night, I ONCE shot a 99 in Slow Fire. With a High Standard Victor using iron sights at 25 yards

indoors. If the last round fired had gone a lousy 1/32" higher, it would've been a 100! That was back in 1996. Was in better overall

shape than I am now. And, I still do try hard to take care of myself. In his posting, John has a "logo" showing a target with a

100-10X. I also did this; just ONCE in all of my years of shooting. It was in 2013 during a practice session of Rapid Fire. Same range,

same pistol, but was using an Ultra DOT sight this time. You can bet that these 2 targets were saved; what about all of the rest of

them? Let's not go there for now. I may not be in the same league as Brian Zins or John Bickar. But when at the range, I certainly try

to shoot as if I was! One last question. If I'm still carrying the same gear in my pistol box now as I always have been, why does it

seem to weigh so much more today than it did before?

For reference: Here is the previous thread on scoping each shot.

mr alexander wrote:a good attitude is important

Right! So let's talk about attitude now. Specifically, a good attitude towards scoping each shot.

GunRunner wrote:why would you even need a scope?

Reasons why you might scope every shot:

• Because you like to win
• Because you like to shoot good scores
• Because you shoot on electronic targets, or might plan to someday
• Because you want to evaluate your performance, execution, mental management, and tactics on each and every shot
• Because each slow fire shot is an individual match, and you're evaluating after each match
• Because it's a cheap and consistent way to work on your mental game
• Because you like to shoot clean targets

When I went from shooting as a hobbyist, to shooting for my livelihood, I re-evaluated some of my "hobbyist" practices. I used to be that guy who would put a towel over his monitor on electronic target ranges, or turn it away from me. Then I realized that I needed to embrace the evaluation portion if I wanted to make the most out of each and every match I shot.

If you ever plan to shoot on electronic targets, you absolutely, positively, must check the monitor after each and every shot. Therefore, it makes worlds of sense to build it into your shot plan for everything you shoot.

shaky hands wrote:

john bickar wrote:Not with that attitude, certainly.

No matter the attitude but at a certain age the reality catches with you. And bites.

Don't I know it, brother.

mr alexander wrote:I may not be in the same league as Brian Zins or John Bickar.

Now that is funny. Although I appreciate the flattery, that's like saying, "I may not be in the same league as Tiger Woods or the club pro at my local muni."

No need to be diminutive to yourself, John. You know you can kick Brian's ass given enough time and free practice ammo.

shaky hands wrote:No need to be diminutive to yourself, John. You know you can kick Brian's ass given enough time and free practice ammo.

With that attitude, certainly!

Actually, Johns' plan is to spank him and send him home in tears.

My plan is to have another beer.

john bickar wrote:For reference: Here is the previous thread on scoping each shot.

mr alexander wrote:a good attitude is important

Right! So let's talk about attitude now. Specifically, a good attitude towards scoping each shot.

GunRunner wrote:why would you even need a scope?

Reasons why you might scope every shot:

• Because you like to win
• Because you like to shoot good scores
• Because you shoot on electronic targets, or might plan to someday
• Because you want to evaluate your performance, execution, mental management, and tactics on each and every shot
• Because each slow fire shot is an individual match, and you're evaluating after each match
• Because it's a cheap and consistent way to work on your mental game
• Because you like to shoot clean targets

When I went from shooting as a hobbyist, to shooting for my livelihood, I re-evaluated some of my "hobbyist" practices. I used to be that guy who would put a towel over his monitor on electronic target ranges, or turn it away from me. Then I realized that I needed to embrace the evaluation portion if I wanted to make the most out of each and every match I shot.

If you ever plan to shoot on electronic targets, you absolutely, positively, must check the monitor after each and every shot. Therefore, it makes worlds of sense to build it into your shot plan for everything you shoot.

1) I do win, at our indoor 22 league every month for last 14
2) I shoot very good scores
3) If bullseye ever evolves to electronic, I still wont need a scope
4) Im confidant in my shooting and don't need constant reinforcement
5) each shot will go in the X if I do my part,nothing will change a shot already fired.
6) Imo its a distraction that costs points
7) I clean targets every match. I have also cleaned a 22 timed fire string with a 100 10x and a 100 8x and this was in a full OD 2700.
We are not talking electronic that's a different world. In bullseye type matches if your gun is zeroed for the range and you did it right, there is no need to scope any shot. if your on a different range yes scope the first one or two to confirm or adjust the zero and if it went where you called it, if you have reached that level then there is no need for a scope after that, I shoot a average 493 out of 500 at our indoor league weekly without a scope. IMO If your a confidant shooter you don't need to scope each shot, top shooters don't do it . You aim and fire and follow thru, that's all you need to concentrate on, the bullet has been fired already nothing can change that bullets score, if you scope and see you shot a 6 how will that help, it wont! Just to show my way works, Here is two targets from our weekly 22 league, 50 ft, on reduced NRA targets, we shoot 2 targets in 4 strings of 5 shots. 100-6x and a 100-7x. And just for Sh*** and giggles at camp perry in 2002 when I was a sharpshooter I tied B.Zins score for the 22 match, except I had more X's lol. I will admit that year on his relay the wind was gruesome. So its not always one way or the wrong way but what ever works best for you.

Hey man, I'm just telling you where the water is. I can't make you drink it. Accurately calling your shots is one of the most critical skills that a shooter can develop - why would you want to give up opportunities to hone that skill?

From the other thread on scoping:

john bickar wrote:Often people will avoid scoping every shot as a crutch against the internal "pressure" that they feel as a "good" target starts to develop.

In doing so, they are tacitly acknowledging a weakness in their mental game plan, and stubbornly refusing to take any steps to overcome it.

Conversely, the way to learn how to shoot 100s is to put yourself in the position of having 9 10s on a target as often as possible.

People don't like to scope every shot because it's HFW. But if you work at it, it will pay off as one of those things that makes the difference between an Expert and a High Master.

Those are nice targets, BTW. No doubts on either of those! :)

GunRunner wrote:

I scope my every shot or T/RF group. I just don't want to deprive myself of a part of enjoyment of the sport. Probably because of this I can call shots pretty well. Let's say I can call my shots perfectly. To me, there is not much challenge in doing so. You just have to pay attention. However, calling shots is merely an ability to notice your bad shots. In itself it does nothing to overcome any significant problem: anticipation of the shot, flinching, bad hold, etc. Calling shots is overrated.