TargetTalk

Does anyone know if it is OK to use CCI copper plated .22lr in an Anschutz 54? I usually use them for my Ruger 10/22 (semi-automatic), but i wonder if it is OK to use them for my Anschutz? Discounting performance issue, will the copper damage the barrel, etc?

For sure it'll make it harder to clean.

Run 15,0000 rounds down the tube then bore scope it. Personally, I wouldn't use that ammo but I have no facts to back it up. Monday we bore scoped my 1913 with 25,000+ rounds and a friends with 15,000 rounds. I clean religiously and he doesn't. My barrel looked new and his was frosted at 6 o'clock; made him sick. So much for the theories you can clean too much or don't need to clean.

Mark

I'd stick with standard or sub-sonic lead bulleted ammo. The copper won't damage the barrel, it's still much softer than steel, and anyway it's only a very thin electro-plate (or similar) covered in a dry wax. Most of the wear in a .22LR seems to come from the priming compound, rather than the bullet itself. I wouldn't use it because it's likely to be lower grade plinking-hunting ammo and less accurate than target ammo.

@Patriot

That frosting at 6 o clock you mention is the start of what used to be known as the "Mark III Ring". It was given this name as back in the late 1960s and early 1970s there were two dominant brands of target grade 22 in the US: Eley Tenex and Winchester Western Mark III.

At that time Eley used a non-glass priming compound while Winchester had a small amount of pulverized glass in theirs. If left uncleaned, after several thousand rounds, the barrels fed Mark III would start to develop a ring, just at the throat of the barrel. It would start at 6 o clock and eventually work its way around the entire circumference of the barrel. Due to the association with Mark III it was given the name "Mark III ring".

Regular cleaning clearly delayed or eliminated the onset of this ring.

For most barrels the presence of the Mark III did not seem to have an adverse effect on accuracy, but in those days we did not score by 10ths either.

After a fire at the Eley plant, 20 years ago or more now, they too switched over to a glass priming compound so the same potential for barrel erosion now exists with Eley.

At this point, as far as I know, there are no 22LR cartridges that do not have pulverized glass in their priming compound so now ANY 22LR ammo will cause barrel erosion at the throat.

In the meantime, to make your friend feel better, buy him a cleaning rod, solvent and some patches. : )

'Dude

@Conradin

While I don't think the copper plated CCI or any other subsonic copper plated bullet would hurt the barrel, I don't have any evidence to back this up. Consider you have a rifle made to much higher standards than most other 22 caliber rifles, why not feed it something specifically designed for target use. In the US, Wolf and SK target grade 22 are both popular with Junior programs as offering target grade consistency with reasonable price point. Likewise, Eley Target and Eley Club can both be good and cost effective for beginning and intermediate level shooters.

My general rule of thumb, if the ammo is getting to be much less than 11 cents per shot, it is probably not worth putting through my barrel.

'Dude

PS: Never shoot any High, Hyper, or Super velocity ammo through your Anschutz. Yeah the stuff is usually cheap as there is about zero quality control but there is ZERO consistency and the cost savings is not worth the extra wear and tear on the barrel.

Dude,
Thanks for the info; very interesting and it confirms what we saw. I have an 1813 barreled action that I purchased used and it shows a slight frosting at 6. The accuracy at this point is as good as my two 1913s.

My friend has the cleaning gear and I'll bet he starts to use it. After Eley increased the ratio of primer to powder others noted barrels were wearing out sooner. We both have shot a mix of Eley EPS and Lapua.

Mark

'Dude,

this might interest you. I have a commemorative booklet that Eley produced in 2001 to celebrate 50 year of Tenex. In this Eley relate that shortly after the release of Tenex, a complaint was recieved that the new ammunition had badly rusted a shooter's barrel. This caused confusion as Tenex had a smokless charge, and a lead-based primer, so there shouldn't have been major corrosion so quickly. So they asked to inspect the rifle, and found the bore was marked, but it wasn't rust pitting, instead it was frosted, which they attributed to the priming compound.

justadude wrote:@Conradin

While I don't think the copper plated CCI or any other subsonic copper plated bullet would hurt the barrel, I don't have any evidence to back this up. Consider you have a rifle made to much higher standards than most other 22 caliber rifles, why not feed it something specifically designed for target use. In the US, Wolf and SK target grade 22 are both popular with Junior programs as offering target grade consistency with reasonable price point. Likewise, Eley Target and Eley Club can both be good and cost effective for beginning and intermediate level shooters.

My general rule of thumb, if the ammo is getting to be much less than 11 cents per shot, it is probably not worth putting through my barrel.

'Dude

PS: Never shoot any High, Hyper, or Super velocity ammo through your Anschutz. Yeah the stuff is usually cheap as there is about zero quality control but there is ZERO consistency and the cost savings is not worth the extra wear and tear on the barrel.

Thanks. I have plenty of other stuff, I just wonder what I want to do with these CCI copper plated .22lr.

I've tested CCI standard 40grn lead. Shot it at 50 yards, it has a lot of power inconsistencies. About 2" group of mostly vertical stringing, wind was blowing but my holdover looked pretty good. Same day I tested SK (Rifle match?) and Wolf Match Extra, both were better but that's a no brainier because their made my Lapua.

I got given a thousand rounds of CCI Standard to try out. It would not even chamber in my 1813. I gave it to one of the old chaps at the club, who was able to use it in his 1957 vintage BSA Century rifle. I know it was that old, as that was when he bought it new, I think it cost him about £20.

Alan

The Great Bard of Smallbore has written on this topic, his wisdom will not be questioned:

http://pronematch.com/ammunition-is-not ... and-death/

Here is a link to an article about barrel fouling and cleaning rim fire rifles. It mentions copper plated bullets, but I don't think it indicates they will harm the barrel.

http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

If you shoot copper lube bullets and don't clean properly, do you end up with green copper sulfate like a poorly cleaned high power rifle shooting jacketed bullets?

I don't know why you would want to shoot supersonic anyway. This is a group at 100M with subsonic RWS target rifle with my Anny 54 (20 shots. I mean how much further do you want to take it?

Carel

This was the very first 100 yards target shot prone with my 1913. My goal became 1/2 inch elevation.