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Need help, again...
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:41 pm
by emoky
Well, some of you may of remember me from my previous topic, which is still in the 1st page somehow.
So the thing different now from the previous topic is that now, i know why i like the shooting and why i don't, the problem is i sometimes think maybe the "reasons" i don't like shooting are rather stupid and just excuses for my low self esteem rather than actual reasons.
The following reasons why i like shooting:
-First off, i just am passionate by mechanics, no matter which subject or topic, especially by any type of arms (air arms, fire arms) and i also want to say that I'm also very interested in the whole topic of gun maintenance, pellet selection, the whole subject of equipment and such even though i am an absolute beginner.
-Second thing, the shooting it's self, this may sound very childish but to say the truth, i don't think i would like shooting without the whole fact of feeling like in a video game, like in the movies, not of the manliness but as feeling like not in reality, like a "dream". Not because of being Rambo or a typical teenager thinking guns are cool. I like the whole idea around the shooting of making the weapon like another arm or an extension to your body, flowing to your whole body in 1 smooth flowing piece.
-Third thing, this reason might be a bit less reasonable but this one is very critical for me i must say, as for now almost every sport, afternoon activity i have began i have left (despite Tennis) so I'm like trying to find my "hobby" (Tennis is more like for physical working and etc) to finally lock in place and stay in my main subject.
The following reasons why i don't like shooting
-First thing, the actual rewarding feeling of shooting, well, most of the time in my club, i actually cared more of my scoring for my "coach" rather than for me, it just put me under pressure that if i shoot under the score, they might re-put me in shooting sitting which i have no problem with but they take the shooting so serious it takes the fun out of it. It's like a MUST to score over this number or if not...
-Second thing, the shooting sometimes, i don't know why just feels plain boredom, maybe because of my low self esteem causing my to feel pressured but maybe as well not for me, i mean, after shooting i just feel like emptiness, bored.
-Third thing, lack of motivation or maybe just not for me, the shooting days are exactly in the days of my Tennis practice, meaning i just don't have the motivation or reasons to go, physically but mainly mentally, i just don't feel like going to shooting again with the "NAZI" (sorry for the expression) style coaches and people, to force myself to score over a specific score, to feel uncomfortable and afterwards to feel just plain emptiness and boredom.
To make it short:\
I'm passionate by guns, i love learning about them, their mechanics, correspondent pellets/bullets caliber, maintenance, shooting them, feeling like no other thing but the only problem is that i can currently only go to the Olympic air shooting, which i just don't think is for me but maybe is.
Thank you if you've read to this far, you seriously must of been bored or was just feeling sorry for this stupid 15 year old going through puberty trying to say long story short, i like guns from games but i don't like Olympic shooting.
Thank you
EDIT: excuse me aswell for my incomprehensible writing and for my 500 "excuse me"
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:06 pm
by Rover
Conradin feels for you.....
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:20 pm
by CR10X
Emoky:
I did read your earlier post and I did not make a reply since I couldn't see anything to add. After reading this one I'm still not sure if I can add anything of substance or not, but I have some observations about why people shoot and even more about what makes people compete. Also, and with all apologies, on the internet you can never be sure about who you are really talking to (on both sides of the conversation). If you search the list, you can see my comments in the past and others on the list can vouch that I am a real shooter (pistol).
I helped guide my daughter through such consideration in another sport. She would win events, but come away unhappy because she did not do as well as she expected. It made her confused that others would congratulate her, when she was really disappointed because she thought (and knew) she could have done better. Conversely, they could not understand when she would come in down in the standings, but be the happiest person in the arena because she had done the very best she and the horse could have possibly done. You see, very few people know what real training and competition means to the Competitor (versus someone that's just playing the game). As a young adult (everyone that shoots safely is an adult in my book) there are also questions on why and what do other's think and what should I do.
First and foremost, if you like shooting just for the sake of shooting as described in your "why I like" section, then you will have no problem with this sport for the rest of you life. Don't worry too much about what others think the outcome should be, just gather information from them to help you shoot better. Listen, think and try it out. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but you will learn something each time.
Unfortunately, some coaches and most other adults that want to help seem to always ask you "what did you score?" or "what went wrong?" rather than "how did that string feel?" or "how many good shot process did you have that string?", "how many good shots did you have?" or anything that seems positive. It can seem that people only want to know how many points you racked up or dropped versus how you felt about it or what you were trying to do. Sometimes they don't realize that for some shooters / competitors (and I think the best ones), the enjoyment is not in the points, but in the process and the test of each shot.
As I've said before:
The hole in the target is only a record, a slice of reality frozen in time, which defines where the muzzle was pointed when the bullet left the barrel. Everything that really affected the location of that hole took place at the gun and behind it, not down range.
A score does not determine your worth as an individual or your social standing; it is simply a record of your PREVIOUS efforts. It is visible measure of what was and has passed. We have to move on into the realm of what will be. Prepare your mind and body to perform and then visualize the outcome. If the training is proper and true, you can leave expectations behind and just shoot the match.
I realize that I probably did not address any of your questions or give you answers on what to do. You have to decide for youself. However, I hope you realize that there are other shooters (and other people) out there that look at the sport a different way. Points are what happens after the fact. The fun is what happens when you're doing it well.
So if you like shooting, shoot. But shoot for the experience that you want, not what someone else wants for you. That's the same in any sport for real competitors.
CR
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:40 pm
by Jimro
I have a saying that I like to remind shooters.
Being a marksman is about getting better. It isn't about winning.
So if you like the sport, stick with it. If you don't like the coach, don't worry, you won't like lots of people in this life. Just don't let one or two people turn you off from doing something you love.
Now coaches on the other hand, they have to worry about things like scores and winning, so forgive them a bit of slack if they bring it up a lot.
Jimro
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:13 pm
by Pat McCoy
Physical training and shooting the same day are counterproductive. You get your mind tired out by the tennis, as well as your muscles. No wonder you have nothing left for the shooting session.
Perhaps you would be better off to look into a gunsmithing school to fill your interest in the mechanical parts of shooting, and use tennis as your recreational side.
You shooting coach is using scores as a "goal" for you, since you have apparently still not set your own goals. If you continue shooting try writing down your goals, what do you want out of shooting, and discuss them with your coach. If he is a good coach he will change from using his ideals (goals) and switch to coaching you using your goals.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:34 am
by emoky
thank you very much for all of your reply's, it really helped me :)
i also realized that i don't enjoy from what i score but from the actual shooting, there's just something that satisfies me more rather than knowing i shot a good pair or something like that. I think it's also about the Olympic shooting style, i mean IMO and no offense it is a very serious and closed sport, for good and bad. I just think that im not a person that likes Olympic shooting style, I'm truly more interested in just casual shooting range shooting or NRA style shooting or even antique gun restoration.
EDIT: i think as well that i was quite confused, i thought that the shooting club was just casual shooting and stuff like that but i was mislead by my own thoughts that turned out to be very competitive. Apparently since it's currently the only place i can go and get closer to my passion, anyways in a few years (with god's help) unfortunately Israel will still have to have an army so there might be my first experience with real shooting.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:02 am
by Ltdave
thank you for your post!
in reading the replies, it put some things into perspective for ME as a parent and a kinda-sorta coach...
ive now got a MUCH BETTER vocabulary to use with my juniors from replies to YOUR post!!!
this is fantastic and its one of the reasons i like the competition. it helps ME be BETTER at what i do even if im not in a match...
good luck with your endeavors
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:35 am
by CR10X
Emoky:
One thing I realized after reading your reply and forgot to mention in my post. Today, most young people get exposure to the shooting sports through organized events (read club / school / organization competitions or training here). Historically, when casual shooting was more prevalent (including "plinking" in the backyard, Dads / Moms and Grandads / Grandmoms teaching how to shoot, hunting, etc.) younger shooters got exposure to shooting in general. Today that's been taken over by organized events or programs like 4H BB guns, prone air / smallbore, and other organized events that are put on by clubs and organizations today. So younger shooters (like yourself) may not have had the opportunity to "just shoot" something for the enjoyment of it and see what aspect / shooting sport you really like.
So some of us older shooters were able to sample a large number of different shooting sports and eventually gravitated (and sometimes changed again) to the ones we like to shooter the most.
So, check out the local clubs. Go see an IPSC, Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, High Power, F Class, Cowboy match or any of the other sports and just look around. You might find something that calls to you.
CR
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:42 am
by emoky
CR10X wrote:Emoky:
One thing I realized after reading your reply and forgot to mention in my post. Today, most young people get exposure to the shooting sports through organized events (read club / school / organization competitions or training here). Historically, when casual shooting was more prevalent (including "plinking" in the backyard, Dads / Moms and Grandads / Grandmoms teaching how to shoot, hunting, etc.) younger shooters got exposure to shooting in general. Today that's been taken over by organized events or programs like 4H BB guns, prone air / smallbore, and other organized events that are put on by clubs and organizations today. So younger shooters (like yourself) may not have had the opportunity to "just shoot" something for the enjoyment of it and see what aspect / shooting sport you really like.
So some of us older shooters were able to sample a large number of different shooting sports and eventually gravitated (and sometimes changed again) to the ones we like to shooter the most.
So, check out the local clubs. Go see an IPSC, Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, High Power, F Class, Cowboy match or any of the other sports and just look around. You might find something that calls to you.
thanks again for the help, the problem is that i live in Israel meaning that the sport shooting isn't that big and really doubt it if they'll let a 15 year old kid try, thanks anyways :), good thing i can atleast read and learn more
CR
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:50 am
by rmarsh
Emoky,
I think you ask some great questions and as others have said, offers an insight into the teenager mind for us coaches and parents.
I don't think you should give up on Olympic style shooting so easily. If you like tinkering with guns and equipment, there's no better place. My 15 yo daughter is the shooer. I'm the one who likes to tinker with equipment. Much to her dismay sometimes, and sometimes to her detriment. I love the sport because it is so technical. She loves to shoot and compete. In this sport I see some very serious competitors. I also see those who have been participating for 20 or 30 years and have rarely (if ever) made it to the podium in a big match...... and everything in between. Those who have Olympic dreams in their heads are very serious and driven. Yes, they are having fun even though it may not look like it. They are driven to be the best they can be, with the goal of that being the best In the world at a snapshot of time. Others (the majority) know they are not going to the Olympics. However, they enjoy the sport for a variety of reasons.
All that to say this: It doesn't have to be about winning or how well you shoot. Enjoy the sport for your own reasons in your own way. If you don't enjoy it, go find another sport. There are plenty of other shooting sports that don't attract such a serious crowd as Olympic rifle.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:18 pm
by emoky
rmarsh wrote:Emoky,
I think you ask some great questions and as others have said, offers an insight into the teenager mind for us coaches and parents.
I don't think you should give up on Olympic style shooting so easily. If you like tinkering with guns and equipment, there's no better place. My 15 yo daughter is the shooer. I'm the one who likes to tinker with equipment. Much to her dismay sometimes, and sometimes to her detriment. I love the sport because it is so technical. She loves to shoot and compete. In this sport I see some very serious competitors. I also see those who have been participating for 20 or 30 years and have rarely (if ever) made it to the podium in a big match...... and everything in between. Those who have Olympic dreams in their heads are very serious and driven. Yes, they are having fun even though it may not look like it. They are driven to be the best they can be, with the goal of that being the best In the world at a snapshot of time. Others (the majority) know they are not going to the Olympics. However, they enjoy the sport for a variety of reasons.
All that to say this: It doesn't have to be about winning or how well you shoot. Enjoy the sport for your own reasons in your own way. If you don't enjoy it, go find another sport. There are plenty of other shooting sports that don't attract such a serious crowd as Olympic rifle.
i really appreciate your help mate. I've decided that meanwhile ill keep reading and learning and hopefully one day ill get to try sport shooting.
I really know inside me that i don't want it.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:49 pm
by Jimro
emoky,
I do not know what casual shooting opportunities exist in Israel, but if you want a non-competitive shooting experience I would have an open discussion about that with the coach (or coaches) at the shooting club you've been attending.
Every coach wants to train the next National or Olympic gold medal winner, but for obvious reasons that cannot happen for every coach. So as long as you are up front about where you want to end up as a shooter, I'm sure the coaches will give you as much or as little assistance as you need to reach those goals.
On a separate note, 15 is a tough age for anyone to go through (I'd rather lose a foot to a landmine than be a teen again), but it gets better. In ten years even with with just one weekly shooting session aimed at improving your marksmanship you would have invested 520 shooting sessions towards mastering the art.
Your goals may change in the future to include being more competitive, or they may not. I didn't start air rifle until I was in my 30s as a cross trainer for High Power Service rifle (a habit I picked up in the US Army), and I really wish I had started on the air rifle seriously when I was your age. Unfortunately I grew up in a very rural area with a very small school with no marksmanship programs (my graduating class was under 40 people). So my first serious training on marksmanship wasn't basic training (they teach the bare minimum to get you through, or at least they did in 1998, but in 2006 when I got a chance to train with the AMU. It took 8 years of service to get even the chance to train with champions.
So I truly encourage you to embrace the opportunity to train now, because I wish I could have at your age.
Jimro
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:55 am
by emoky
Jimro wrote:emoky,
I do not know what casual shooting opportunities exist in Israel, but if you want a non-competitive shooting experience I would have an open discussion about that with the coach (or coaches) at the shooting club you've been attending.
Every coach wants to train the next National or Olympic gold medal winner, but for obvious reasons that cannot happen for every coach. So as long as you are up front about where you want to end up as a shooter, I'm sure the coaches will give you as much or as little assistance as you need to reach those goals.
On a separate note, 15 is a tough age for anyone to go through (I'd rather lose a foot to a landmine than be a teen again), but it gets better. In ten years even with with just one weekly shooting session aimed at improving your marksmanship you would have invested 520 shooting sessions towards mastering the art.
Your goals may change in the future to include being more competitive, or they may not. I didn't start air rifle until I was in my 30s as a cross trainer for High Power Service rifle (a habit I picked up in the US Army), and I really wish I had started on the air rifle seriously when I was your age. Unfortunately I grew up in a very rural area with a very small school with no marksmanship programs (my graduating class was under 40 people). So my first serious training on marksmanship wasn't basic training (they teach the bare minimum to get you through, or at least they did in 1998, but in 2006 when I got a chance to train with the AMU. It took 8 years of service to get even the chance to train with champions.
So I truly encourage you to embrace the opportunity to train now, because I wish I could have at your age.
Jimro
Thank you for your help first of all.
I just feel that this sport isn't for me, i don't feel connected to it, i just thought i would like it since I'm interested in shooting, maintenance and etc but IMO it isn't really connected to the part im interested atleast. The sport is fascinating no doubt, just not me for i guess.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:02 am
by jhmartin
emoky wrote:Thank you for your help first of all.
I just feel that this sport isn't for me, i don't feel connected to it, i just thought i would like it since I'm interested in shooting, maintenance and etc but IMO it isn't really connected to the part im interested atleast. The sport is fascinating no doubt, just not me for i guess.
As Rick said above ... there are a wonderful selection of shooting sports. If you want to stay in the "Olympic" game styles ... find a place to try out sport or RF pistol ... it's a hoot.
Have you tried Olympic Trap (Bunker) ... it's a lot of fun and quite challenging. My own reflexes are not up to Olympic Skeet, but it too is a challenge.
Whatever you do ... competition or relaxation/fun ... just keep shooting! (with a smile)
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:50 am
by v76
You don't want to put in the effort(s) to get better because you fear failure. That said, It's OK to try many different things when you're 15 - olympic shooting may or may not be for you and that is not for anybody but you to decide. You're at an age where the opportunity arises to develop into the elite, but you can always come back to it later, albeit most probably not in a highly competitive/structured environment. Olympic shooting can also be seen as quantitative plinking, as many people on this forum will attest.
Re: Need help, again...
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:33 pm
by Chuckiep
So, I guess Emoky quit?
too bad. He has a coach focusing on results? so unfortunate. I wish I could get him to a coach that would teach him "Process". I felt the same way he did at first. "board"
but when you fall in love with the Process of shooting. I might have just as well main lined a drug!
I found my self being very uncomfortable with my inability to "control" my thoughts, control my conscious mind's incessent chatter. i kept thinking "I am NOT okay with my mind having control over me..." I suppose this sounds like what a crazy person would say!
I hope emoky sticks with it and learns about the process side of shooting.
If you are still on here emoky, Please try these two books: "With winning in mind" by lanny bassham, and the "power of now" by Eckhart Tolle. Or get the audio books. they could change your life!