TargetTalk

Looking for accurate loads with my Pardini GT9, 6-inch barrel. Accuracy is poor with cast bullets and the 125 grain lead DRG, and leading is a problem.

I have not shot the GT9 but I had a GT45 and the gun shot very well. I have found that the Atlanta Arms 9MM 115GR XTP MATCH Ammo shoots very well in my 1911. The 9mm is difficult to load for accuracy. If the gun shoots this ammo well it will give you a place to start, if not you can figure out why your gun is not shooting as it should and they can't blame your reloads. Power Pistol is a very good powder for the 9mm but it is not a soft shooting powder.

Russ

would like to greet and share my experience with charging of 9 mm. GT9 Pardini for a 6 ":
Bullet: 25% lead, 75% linotipo
Cast: LEE mold 358-125gr. dia.358
Bullet sizin & lube: 357 "
Weight 119-120 gr
Powder: 6.1 gr Hotgon HS6
Introduction: 5mm
No crimp.

Thank you for this information. I am thinking that my problem with the lead bullet loads is due to the lead not being hard enough, thus getting leading and poor groups.

I have tried the CamPro plated bullet, 125 grains, for the 38. The bullets were large, so I lubed and resized them to .357, and loaded to 1.020 with 4.0 of 7625 powder. The bullet is truncated, flatnose.

paobo42 wrote:

034.jpg

would like to greet and share my experience with charging of 9 mm. GT9 Pardini for a 6 ":
Bullet: 25% lead, 75% linotipo
Cast: LEE mold 358-125gr. dia.358
Bullet sizin & lube: 357 "
Weight 119-120 gr
Powder: 6.1 gr Hotgon HS6
Introduction: 5mm
No crimp.

Is that target done at 25 meters? And off the bench or out of a vise or ransom rest? What's the overall largest spread?

I am interested to know if this is the Lee .38 bullet, 125 flatnose. I tried some of those but had to load them to under an inch oal to fit the Pardini and CZ short chamber/leade. I load the 125 Lee roundnose at 1.080 for my CZ, but it leads the barrel in the Pardini. I will cast some lead bullets harder, but that has to wait for spring when the temperature is warmer - I don't cast indoors.

The problem with leading is not from being too soft but too hard. You are between a rock and a hard place though because if your lead is soft ( 9-11 ) BHN they will be swaged down by the 9mm case. These cause the exact same problems that the 32 ACP does. The case is short and gets thicker as it goes deeper and you will find that they vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Because of the inside taper, when using a soft bullet, you need to have as short of a bullet as you can to avoid smashing your bullet at the base.

You also need to have a larger and maybe deeper expander than is used for jacketed bullets to the point of bulging the brass a bit. My guess is that slower powder will give better accuracy but it is also dirtier so there is a trade off. I don't know how large the barrels of accurate 9mm's of recent manufacturer are but it is a good idea to slug to find out. I shot some soft lead bullets out of my accurized 92FS with a load that I just picked by guess and at 25 yards it was pretty good except for flyers that went into the target sideways. I went home and pulled a bullet and found that they swaged as low as .352 inches. I don't know what the barrel on this pistol measures but I know it is bigger than that. With soft bullets you can get away sometimes with a bullet about one thousandths smaller than groove diameter and one or maybe two thousandths too large but with hard bullets they better be real close to exact size. If you want to clean your bore the easy way shoot a half dozen or so very soft bullets (BHN of 8-9 ) through and the lead will disappear. This will also prove to you that soft lead will not stick in the barrel.

I am about finished with the 32 ACP now as many have had excellent results and will be trying to make the 9 do the same thing this next summer. I will make several different size expanders to find out what is necessary. Because you can't expand too deep but have to go enough I will at first expand and then bell in different steps so I can effectively expand at the depth I choose and will cut the expander off to the right length when I am finished testing. I did it the hard way making a lot of expanders for the 32 and don't want to do that again.

Been playing with soft cast lead in 9mm for a couple of months now and the leading problem has been solved.
The pistol is a Sig-Hammerli P210LS, the origional factory barrel is a 1 in 10 twist and leaded badly with soft
projectiles even with slower burning powder. Even some leading with poly coated pills.
Changed barrel to a IGB 1 in 16 twist and presto..... soft lead (3% tin only) cast 124g SWC, wax based lube,
are holding the 10 ring at 25m on ISSF target shot offhand.
Over 400 rounds fired in one session with no leading, loaded for 125 power factor (1080 fps).

What I am looking for is what load works well and is accurate in a particular gun - the Pardini GT6. I have cast 9mm bullets, over 125000, for 5 different 9mm pistols. All of my reloads have a "bump" where the base of the bullet is, and they feed and shoot fine. All of my reloads are checked with a competition case gauge.
I have slugged my barrel with a soft lead bullet, and the barrel is .3555-.356. I have shot many many reloads from my CZ guns, and they feed and they shoot accurately. I have shot 9mm for over 20 years, and am convinced that a harder bullet is needed to shoot well in the Pardini. The rifling is quite shallow in the Pardini barrel. I will be experimenting with a hard cast bullet at .357 diameter.
For now I am happy with the CamPro plated bullet load as mentioned in a previous post.
If you own and shoot a Pardini GT9, let me know what your reload is please. dragon

I answer all the group, is to support. The bullet alloy are 75% and 25% linotype lead. (With an alloy 50% to 50%. With 100 shots were traces of lead in the barrell). This is my Pardini GT 9 6" 356 "caliber, reason why swadget & lube on 357".

The pic seems to show the Lee 358-125RF bullet. This is the bullet which I tried but had to load it to under 1.000 to allow it to chamber, due to the large diameter of the flat nose and the long bearing surface. The short chamber of the CZ and Pardini barrels would not chamber the round unless it was loaded to about 0.993. At a length of a little over one inch it was hitting the rifling. What am I missing here? Is my barrel different? The CZ forum lists the max overall length to be 1.000, and the chamber in my Pardini is the same length as my CZ. My loads with this bullet did not feed well at the short loaded length and sized .357.

With the newer carbide ring sizing dies you don't really have much to work with on the resizing size. With the ring that is the size you get, sure you could use an abrasive to make the id larger. That would squeeze the case less and thus squeeze the bullets base less. However the 9mm Luger case is tapered and there are still older sizing dies that have the same tapered chamber. You could use one of these older steel sizing dies, not carbide, and adjust it up or down to essentially "bump" the case just enough to hold the bullet at the tension you want. That would solve the over sizing and squeezing of the bullets base.

I have a "standard load" which have worked well for me in different guns, I have also tried this in a GT9, and got a Group at 27yds measuring 22mm c-c. Its a Lee 120gr TC 3,8gr Vith N320 and oal 28,2mm(1,110") cal.dia .357

Thanks for all of the information. I will have to purchase a Lee mold - thanks Olav. dragon

I purchased the Lee 120 grain conical, flat-nose bullet mold and once again I find that I can't use the information on overall length. Olav states that he loads this bullet to 1.110 and I find that at 1.075 the bullet is contacting the leade/rifling. The information on the Lee 38 mold 125 grain would not work in my GT9 either - had to load it to 0.993 which did not feed.
Is my barrel different? What is the rate of the rifling?
Does a heavy bullet work in this gun?
Still experimenting. I have not yet loaded any of the Lee 120 bullets, but cast some extra-hard to see if that eliminates the leading.

Dragon,
Why don't you email Pardini USA and ask what load they recommend for the GT9? I have found them to be very helpful and responsive to inquiries. Dipnet

did that. They had no reloading information. Pardini.com had some lead load data but with European powders.
I have made some 120 grain bullets and will be making some trial loads.
The slow twist of the GT9 rifling will not work with a heavy bullet.

Hi. Pardini deliver 2 sorts of barrels to the GT9, one lead and one for fmj. In Italy they are not allowed to have 9x19mm (military cal) and therfore they do not chamber the gun, the main distributor in the country who may sell this guns have to chamber them theirselves. I think thats why you can find Pardinipistols who tolerate different OAL length. At least, here in Norway, the distributor chamber the Pardini 9mm him self. I know of shooters who have problem with leadbullets in their Pardini, but most of them shoots great With lead bullets, even 148gr.
Pardini are one of the most used 9mm pistols for targetshooting here where I live, for a good reason, they may be one of the absolute best targetpistols there is. I can`t guarante all of this for a 100% fact, and things may have changed, but so I`m been told(both from the distributor and others who shoots Pardini GT9.
I`m sorry for my bad English, have problem to express my self in a good way.

Thank you for the information. I did get a Lee 120 grain conical mold, and have to load to an overall length of 1.063 I have not been experimenting with the GT9 because I am waiting for a new front sight.

update - put on the new sight which has a green fibre-optic. I am loading the Lee 120 grain truncated cone bullet, powder coated and sized to .357, at 1.062 with 4.0 N320.