TargetTalk

I am stumped folks, and looking for advice.
I am a bullseye shooter, returning to the sport after not shooting at all for 25 years.
I am 73 years old now, so I don't expect to ever shoot master scores, but in my prime, I did shoot a couple 870's
in the .22 matches, so I know a little bit about shooting.

What I don't know about is todays equipment.

My Steve Woods wad gun is as good today as it was when he built it, but my, used to be trusty, old High Standard Trophy,
just will not reliably feed, and eject.
I thought at first that it might be because I could not find any CCI SV for it (it always loved that cheap stuff). So I decided to
adjust the gun until it learned to like Wolf or SK (which IS available).

Well, I have struck out. I've cleaned the gun, then watched wolf fail. cleaned the gun and replaced springs, and watched Wolf fail.
Replaced the extractor, and watched Wolf fail. Adjusted the magazine, and watched Wolf fail.

I am at the end of my rope here.
I just can't keep shooting with an unreliable gun.
My scores suck (when I can get 90 shots together), but that's ok because I can only get better from here.

I don't have that many years left to shoot, so I'd like them to be as trouble free as I can make them. So...what should I do to get a reliable 22 ?
It looks like my choices are Pardini, Nelson conversion on a dedicated lower, or find a High Standard repair expert. Gosh, he would probably be older than me.
Before you say " call Al Marvel, he works on H.S", I did. He is 83 now, and has retired.

So, what do you say ?

Greetings-

I never could get Wolf or SK to work in my S&W model 41's. However, both brands sing in my Pardini SPnew. Since the Hi-Standard worked so well for you in the past it seems reasonable to conclude that it would do so, now, if they had the correct diet of ammunition. Perhaps trade some Wolf for CCI SV?

Otherwise, there is a used Pardini for sale on the forum, now:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47063

Cheers!
m1963

My Pardini in 22 always goes bang and with all kinds of ammo. On top of that it is really accurate with all ammo brands.

After a similar experience I just kept trying different brands. I found several that were satisfactory.

Just added: Try some RWS Target Rifle, Norma TAC, or Fiocchi.

izzyjim wrote:I am stumped folks, and looking for advice.
I am a bullseye shooter, returning to the sport after not shooting at all for 25 years.
I am 73 years old now, so I don't expect to ever shoot master scores, but in my prime, I did shoot a couple 870's
in the .22 matches, so I know a little bit about shooting.

What I don't know about is todays equipment.

My Steve Woods wad gun is as good today as it was when he built it, but my, used to be trusty, old High Standard Trophy,
just will not reliably feed, and eject.
I thought at first that it might be because I could not find any CCI SV for it (it always loved that cheap stuff). So I decided to
adjust the gun until it learned to like Wolf or SK (which IS available).

Well, I have struck out. I've cleaned the gun, then watched wolf fail. cleaned the gun and replaced springs, and watched Wolf fail.
Replaced the extractor, and watched Wolf fail. Adjusted the magazine, and watched Wolf fail.

I am at the end of my rope here.
I just can't keep shooting with an unreliable gun.
My scores suck (when I can get 90 shots together), but that's ok because I can only get better from here.

I don't have that many years left to shoot, so I'd like them to be as trouble free as I can make them. So...what should I do to get a reliable 22 ?
It looks like my choices are Pardini, Nelson conversion on a dedicated lower, or find a High Standard repair expert. Gosh, he would probably be older than me.
Before you say " call Al Marvel, he works on H.S", I did. He is 83 now, and has retired.

So, what do you say ?

Graf & Sons has CCI in stock. Its pricey (green tag) but its CCI:

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... uctId/2363

Also to add... if you have a good ball gun, get yourself a marvel conversion unit and the extra spring set. My marvel with the lighter recoil spring loves almost all ammo including wolf/jagd sk, aguilla, eley target, etc...

izzyjim
Been there, done that. My formerly reliable and beloved A-series model 41 began hiccupping to the point that I rebuilt it, including bolt face, extractor, firing pin, springs, but nothing seemed to cure the problem. Tried used High Standards and same results. These guns were old and tired; short of a smith who actually knew what he was doing, only frustration awaited.

I ended up buying a Pardini SP and LOVE it. I'd jump on that gun mentioned earlier (great deal). Believe me, you will begin enjoying bullseye and you will find out what you are capable of shooting. Mine Pardini eats any ammo, but quality ammo yields one-hole groups. dipnet

Watch this link if you are undecided.
There's a reason the best in the world shoot Pardini...and Eley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IXdx13v ... 1yMp6x_C0Q

My Hammerli 208s is extremely reliable and accurate with a wide variety of ammo. My Marvel Precision (after adjusting the magazine feed lips) is very reliable. The Ruger Mark I (yeah, I'm no spring chicken) I used to have was accurate and reliable. I assume (maybe incorrectly) that the new Mark III's are just as accurate and reliable.

You only live once. Buy a new gun. And, buy a Pardini if you want reliable and the best available.
My Pardini 22 SPBE eats any standard velocity ammo I feed it. I test at 50 yards and Standard Plus Lapua or SK are the most accurate (even more so then Eley Tenex) and that's affordable ammo. I even shoot Federal 711b in mine and it's almost as accurate, and certainly good enough by almost all shooters standards. Even the cheap stuff will knock out a 10 center off the bench at 50'. Doesn't get Much better than a Pardini for 22's.

for a super reliable more affordable gun check out Larrys guns and look at the hammerlie exxsse you can add a scope rail and a dot and be all in for around 1400.00

Dick's Sporting Goods has CCI Standard listed in their current flier for $40 a brick.

Neal77, talk about timing. UPS just dropped off a case of SK standard plus, or I would have grabbed that brick (if they still had it).

At one time, I was the only one in my club shooting CCI std.

No one else trusted it, but it came in third for accuracy in my H.S., and I had very few problems with it. Maybe one failure in every couple matches.

And it cost $150.00 a case then. Wow, good old days.


Anyway, I could not contact the Pardini seller using the supplied e mail address. My computer say's it's an invalid address.
I sent them a PM, which they have not yet responded to.

Then I phoned Nelson conversion to get info on their 45/22 conversion.
Well, they responded, we had a nice talk, and I ordered their std. bbl. with scope mount, & a new ultra dot.

Thanks to all who responded, I appreciate your help...Jim

GunRunner wrote:for a super reliable more affordable gun check out Larrys guns and look at the hammerlie exxsse you can add a scope rail and a dot and be all in for around 1400.00

The aluminum trigger kit that Larry's Guns sells and installs on the Hammerli X-esse is a must have over the factory trigger. Very nice. Another benefit of the X-esse is it is lighter than other 22s, making it easier to add weight where you want it. A good Bullseye 22.

Hammerli xesse is very reliable just make sure the trigger guard gets the once over from Larry because if they are fitted improperly at the factory it can fail.

Marvel Unit one once broken in will be the most reliable. I need to put a drop of locktite on my guide rod.

You might a well asked which is better Ford Chebby or Dodge....

I'm going to add a +1 for a Marvel conversion. I have shot a 889 with my 5" non lock back simple Marvel. I like the Marvel because they support the shooters at Camp Perry and their product. Other 1911 conversions might be just as good however I doubt you could get "better" than a marvel.

In My humble opinon, if you want a Super-Duperonni and BELIEVE it will improve your scores, it Will. But your current High standard is more than capable of the same scores.

CCI standard velocity is available but difficult to find and not cheap. My high standard liked the CMP cheap ammo, try a brick of that. Tune the magazines properly (google it) and I put a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine. The oil drips down the stack of rounds and keeps the follower lubed. They slide easily out of the magazine and feed better (in my humble opinion)

I did get a kick out of the other replies. The great shooters all choose Pardini or FWB or ....
Really? Define that. A Ruger Mk I is good enough for several national champions. It is neither the arrow nor the bow, but the archer that makes the great shot.

motorcycle_dan wrote: I did get a kick out of the other replies. The great shooters all choose Pardini or FWB or ....
Really? Define that. A Ruger Mk I is good enough for several national champions. It is neither the arrow nor the bow, but the archer that makes the great shot.

Well, Dan...
Since this appears to be directed at me, I'll define it.. I don't see Ruger MKI s any where in the video, and it's fair to say the shooters competing in that match are some of the greatest.. I didn't see Ruger MKI, II, or III in the top ten at Perry . I haven't seen a HM with a Ruger in quite a few years. And, many of the Rugers shooting high end scores have been extensively worked over and still can't compare equally to a high end, quality .22 target pistol. The .22 debates are supported and fueled by the fact, that the even very cheap substandard .22 ammo and pistols can perform on a level that is acceptable to some shooters. The .22 cartridge is inherently accurate even in Ruger barrels.. To imply that a Ruger is going to function and perform at the level of a Pardini or Hammerli is wishful at best. Most of the of the great archers of today are shooting Hoyt compounds, not lemon wood stick bows..

Ruger, Browning Buckmark, .... may be able to get you to Expert or even Master but beyond that every point counts. If your hold is inside the 10 ring then you need the group to be 1/2" or less to stay in the 10 ring when you are at the outer limits.

All the HM's I've shot with lately are shooting one of the Euro guns. I am shooting a Nelson Converson (has all the latest Marvel design changes), I'd highly recommend one, but when I get my Master card my reward will be a new Pardini.

- Dave

izzyjim,

I see that you've ordered a Nelson conversion for Bullseye Competition; enjoy shooting it. As to the High Standard pistols,

am certainly not an "expert" by any means, other than owning one since 1977. Was told by several that these guns came

tuned from the factory exclusively for CCI SV ammo. The High Standards do not have feed ramps that are integral with the

barrel as is typically encountered with S&W Model 41's, Ruger MK I, II and III's, and Browning Buckmarks. Because of this,

the overall length of the cartridge seems to have a HUGE effect on feed reliability. Of all of the rounds available, both foreign

and domestic, CCI SV is probably the longest end-to-end. Because of their shorter lengths, other brands may not feed

reliably, despite your best efforts in tuning the magazines. There are exceptions to this of course, due to the slight

dimensional differences that are always present from gun to gun. With it's tuned magazines, my Victor runs extremely well

with CCI. For additional helpful info on High Standards, visit "rimfirecentral.com". There are quite a few very knowledgeable

and experienced posters there.

Jerry it was not intended to bash you. I still stand by my statement. 25m rapid fire might be different because you have to raise and fire. The bore position and grip angle of the pardini is well suited for that purpose. The original post was asking about bullseye competition. A Pardini will work for bullseye as well as for 25m rapid fire but no better than any number of other .22 LR target pistols. Reliability was the original posters big concern. There are precious few target grade pistols that are more reliable than a Ruger. I don't recommend a ruger because it is "different" than your CF and .45 gun. If you are only going to shoot .22 the Ruger is a good choice. The high standard is a good chioce but it is still "different" than a 1911. If you are shooting all 1911 frame pistols you only have to learn one grip and trigger control. You could shoot a Pardini GT45 but that is not the same feel as the Pardini .22 and in my humble opinon I can't make them as accurate as a 1911. Possibly in someone else's hand a GT45. So my advise to anyone that asks that type of question has always been, "The majority of your shooting budget should be spent on ammunition and range time." If at all possible attend a bullseye clinic as that pays back well point score verses money invested. I don't believe a Pardini, or FWB or Walther any other target grade pistol will pay as well point score increase vs money invested. I have shot FWB and to be honest it is a very fine pistol. Even Brian Zins says it "pads his X count." I'm not saying the Marvel is perfect they have ammo and magazine issues and other problems that a Pardini might not have. But the forum is a place of opinions, I offered mine and you offered yours. Both valid opinions. But opinions only. It would have been foolish and unfair for me to claim "Marvel is the best" then reference John Zurek's scores in the 890's using a Marvel. John's scores are that high because of the effort he has put in to master it.