TargetTalk

Like another thread here, I just picked up a wheel gun for fun and dr matches. m14 Smith 6 inch. .38

I have some Hodgens Clay and a few 125 round nose lead and some 125 swc's. At 3 grains, off sand bags, the round nose bullets showed a decent but not good enough group and the swc's were all over the paper.

So the question is, with the bullets available, (ain't seen 148 wadcutters for years) what do I feed it?

I ask because after 45 years of shooting, this is my first revolver.

thanks
Rich

I can't help you with your loads, but I use 148 gr DEWC from these people:
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.p ... econdary=9

Roger

just curious, what does the "DE" in the dewc stand for?

Double Ended. They can be loaded with either orientation.

Also keep in mind that DR matches are shot with 158gr ammo, and either round-nose or semi-wadcutter bullets; no full wadcutters or hollowpoint bullets.

Both Speer and Hornaday (not to mention many, many others) sell 148gr. wadcutters, so you should be able to buy them in any decent shop.

2.7gr. of Bullseye was the traditional favorite, but many other loads will work.

1 - slug each chamber throat
2 - slug barrel

For a M14 S&W the chamber throats 'should' be about .001" over barrel diameter.
Lead projectiles should be .000" to .001" more than chamber throats.

What Spencer said.

I had a S&W that I could NOT get a decent group out of. I sent it back to S&W after talking directly to one of their repair techs.

When it was returned, I could cover good 25 yard groups with the tip of my finger. (Thanks, Gene.)

Spencer, I can understand slugging the bore, why the cylinders? And what do I slug them with?

Why slug the cylinders? I bought a used S&W 586 not too long ago and found that one chamber was always way out of the group. I didn't slug the chambers but checked them with gauge pins and the problem chamber was something like .005" larger than the rest. It was obviously a factory defect but since I wasn't the original purchaser S&W wouldn't do anything about it. Fortunately, I'm a good customer at the gun shop where I bought it and they took it back.

If you really want to get serious, number each chamber and bench test them individually. My understanding is that you are likely to find one that is not quite as good as the others. If so, it would be prudent to avoid that one if you are shooting 5 shot strings anyway. I also read a blog recently where it was suggested that for consistency during the slow fire phase, only one chamber should be used essentially using the revolver as a single shot.

Roger

richrd wrote:Spencer, I can understand slugging the bore, why the cylinders? And what do I slug them with?

Part 1 - if the chamber throat sizes are too small, the projectiles will be sized down under the bore diameter (not good for accuracy and can give rise to barrel leading). At least one 686 in .32HRM suffered from this. If the chamber throats vary you can get some 'interesting' affects on accuracy.

Part 2 - for .38Spl/357Mag, a 158gr RN lead projectile of .358 dia can be pushed from the back through the chamber throat and measured. In a M14 the chamber throats are unlikely to be bigger than .358
When slugging, make sure the chamber and barrel are scrupulously clean and wipe through with WD40 or similar.

In recent Ruger New Model Blackhawk the 45 ACP cylinder are too small, reportedly a .450 and should be .452. When reamed to the proper diameter the pistol becomes more accurate with less leading. I own one an it has the described issues. Many folks I know through a reputable forum have their chamber reamed as aforementioned.

I too will be shooting a 14-4 soon and am curious how to slug the barrel as I have never performed that operation.

I have double ended 148 gr wadcutters of .358 diameter.

chiltech500 wrote:...and am curious how to slug the barrel as I have never performed that operation...

Me too!
I have slugged a few rifle and pistol barrels over the years - easy, just push them through from the chamber
but the only revolver barrels I have slugged have been prior to fitting to the frame.

Hope somebody chimes in...

Use a soft or pure lead cast unsized wadcutter. You can squash it in a vice to swell the size a little if needed.
Carefully drive the slug thru the barrel using a brass drift, with a revolver you will have to drive from the muzzle.
Measure with a micrometer across lands.
Cast projectiles should be .001" to .002" larger than barrel (Hard cast .001" over).
Chamber needs to be at least projectile size or up to .001" over.

I have seen (frequently) a constriction at the rear of the barrel due to its being screwed into the frame.

When I wanted to measure my barrel, I just took a "fat" wadcutter and tapped it into the muzzle with a plastic hammer. I then tapped it through the bore with a fat brass rod.

Some guns have an odd number of lands and must be measured with a special fixture (which I don't have).

If you don't want to bother with all this, just polish out the chamber throats with emery to .359-.360 and then firelap the bore.

Have fun.

Rover wrote:Both Speer and Hornaday (not to mention many, many others) sell 148gr. wadcutters, so you should be able to buy them in any decent shop.

2.7gr. of Bullseye was the traditional favorite, but many other loads will work.

The new bullseye powder needs a little more for the same velocity, try 2.8gr.
Gives about 780fps. (Varies with revolver brand).
Necksize for bullet diameter and light crimp with a little lead exposed.

You can get swagged 148's from Precision Delta, champions choice and Zero Bullets and most casters make cast double ended wad cutters.

My ridiculously accurate load in my K14 is 148 HBSWC loaded just past the edge of the case (maybe a 1/32 longer if that much). A nice roll crimp and 2.6/2.7 gn of WST powder.

Soft like an air gun and all the bullets should go in almost the same whole from a bench rest at 25 yds.

Clean too as compared to Alliant Bullseye

People rave about WST for the 45acp and its great for cast bullets but really no better than bullseye or w231 in my experience.

Since you bought the gun with the DR in mind let's stick to 158 gr RN and SWC. Here's what I found works for my 14-3. I found the 158 gr RN needs a bit of speed to shoot well. I ended up with 3.2 grains of Bullseye with a mild crimp. A SWC will shoot too I've just found for me the RN shoots better. It needs to be a good bullet and sized to .358. Make sure the base is free of any nicks or damage. I can't really recommend one as I use a locally cast one that is great. I'm a huge fan of alox bullet lube. It seems to keep the barrel from leading up as fast and smells good. You will get a bit more recoil but it is very manageable.

you guys cost me money.

I decided to go with Missouri Bullets, ordering 148's and 156's and as long as I was at it, order a couple different for the .45.

I have plenty of Clays, but don't see and bullseye or 231 around here.

3 gn clays sounds hot

Make sure you crimp and fl sizing is right because that influences accuracy

That gun should be at 2 inches at 50 yards and in the same hole at 25 yards