This question is coming from a fairly new 1911 shooter so please don't laugh too hard... :)
How do you tell recoil springs apart, i.e. if I took all of my Wolff recoil springs out of their carefully labelled plastic packaging and laid them side by side how do you tell them apart? Length? Is there a method to test them?
And no I haven't separated the springs from their packaging. Yet.
1911 Recoil Springs
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gulliver62
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
- Location: Georgia
If you're lucky, some of the recoil springs are color coded. They have paint or dye on a small section of it. Some gun mfgr's use these springs.
Length isn't always an indicator as I've seen heavier springs shorter than new lighter ones if they've been in the gun for awhile.
Without marking them, labeling them or having the color on them, it's hard to tell them apart. Always make a note somewhere which one is in the gun and which one is in the package.
Here's a good article from Brownells about measuring 1911 springs:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1026 ... on-Weights
It says a std 1911 5" bbl is measured at 1.625" compressed. That would mean if 18# compresses it 1.625" that's the weight of your spring. Doubt though you could test it yourself without some type of compressor.
Length isn't always an indicator as I've seen heavier springs shorter than new lighter ones if they've been in the gun for awhile.
Without marking them, labeling them or having the color on them, it's hard to tell them apart. Always make a note somewhere which one is in the gun and which one is in the package.
Here's a good article from Brownells about measuring 1911 springs:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1026 ... on-Weights
It says a std 1911 5" bbl is measured at 1.625" compressed. That would mean if 18# compresses it 1.625" that's the weight of your spring. Doubt though you could test it yourself without some type of compressor.
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RandomShotz
- Posts: 553
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:24 pm
- Location: Lexington, KY
Just a guess, but I don't think that Wolff will adjust spring force within a family by using different alloys or different tempering - too many variables. The difference between the springs is probably mechanical. If the wire diameters differ, you can measure that with calipers - heavier wire=stronger spring. If that doesn't help, try counting the number of coils - more coils=stronger spring, all other things being equal.
You could also do a direct measurement Some fiddling around with a fishing scale would at least allow you to figure out which one was strongest, which next and so on. Force under tension will be in the same order as force under compression, so see how much force it takes to stretch or compress each spring the same distance, or you could measure the different deflections under the same force. (Google "spring constant" or "Hooke's Law)
Roger
You could also do a direct measurement Some fiddling around with a fishing scale would at least allow you to figure out which one was strongest, which next and so on. Force under tension will be in the same order as force under compression, so see how much force it takes to stretch or compress each spring the same distance, or you could measure the different deflections under the same force. (Google "spring constant" or "Hooke's Law)
Roger
This is what I use for both mainspring and recoil spring.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 56227.aspx
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 56227.aspx
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I believe that more coils = weaker spring all things being equal otherwise. Also, a general rule is that for every 1% increase in wire diameter, you get about 4% increase in stiffness.
Joel
Joel
RandomShotz wrote: If that doesn't help, try counting the number of coils - more coils=stronger spring, all other things being equal.
Roger
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RandomShotz
- Posts: 553
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:24 pm
- Location: Lexington, KY
Joel -
You are absolutely right - I stand corrected. More coils yields a smaller spring constant, i.e., less force per unit deflection:
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/s ... signer.cfm
Roger
You are absolutely right - I stand corrected. More coils yields a smaller spring constant, i.e., less force per unit deflection:
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/s ... signer.cfm
Roger
recoil springs
You cannot tell therefore you should be very careful when switching springs.
1) I keep an equipment log and note which springs I need for mid level loads and light loads. Generally the spring that ejects the brass at my feet is the ideal spring with a certain load. Stove pipes mean the spring is too hard and ejecting forward suggests the spring is too soft. Provided the extractor is tuned right.
2) Wolf has a chart and you can mic the spring and see which wolf spring you have.
3) I also label my springs with a peice of masking tape and with a sharpie I note the size as inventoried in my equipment log, then I put the spring in its original bag. I also never take out a new spring before the spring is labeled. If you don't do the you will have a box of unknown springs.
I change my springs every 2500 rounds but they can last up to 10 to 20,000 rounds before failing. My dad had a colt national match and he always used 3.5 bullseye and I do not think he every changed his recoil spring. He is a master and would not sell me his gun because "he had at least 80,000 rounds through that gun."
I also keep a 14 pound spring in my range box just in case.
I use 11 to 13 pounds for light loads.
14 to 16 pounds for midrange loads and
16 to 18 pounds for ball ammo
But It depends, I have a Kimber that jams with the factory 16 Pound spring but runs 100% over 1000 rounds with a 14 pound spring.
Last if the gun vertically strings try a new or heavier spring before spending money on a using or gunsmith.
1) I keep an equipment log and note which springs I need for mid level loads and light loads. Generally the spring that ejects the brass at my feet is the ideal spring with a certain load. Stove pipes mean the spring is too hard and ejecting forward suggests the spring is too soft. Provided the extractor is tuned right.
2) Wolf has a chart and you can mic the spring and see which wolf spring you have.
3) I also label my springs with a peice of masking tape and with a sharpie I note the size as inventoried in my equipment log, then I put the spring in its original bag. I also never take out a new spring before the spring is labeled. If you don't do the you will have a box of unknown springs.
I change my springs every 2500 rounds but they can last up to 10 to 20,000 rounds before failing. My dad had a colt national match and he always used 3.5 bullseye and I do not think he every changed his recoil spring. He is a master and would not sell me his gun because "he had at least 80,000 rounds through that gun."
I also keep a 14 pound spring in my range box just in case.
I use 11 to 13 pounds for light loads.
14 to 16 pounds for midrange loads and
16 to 18 pounds for ball ammo
But It depends, I have a Kimber that jams with the factory 16 Pound spring but runs 100% over 1000 rounds with a 14 pound spring.
Last if the gun vertically strings try a new or heavier spring before spending money on a using or gunsmith.
1911 Springs
All good information, thank you very much.
Recoil springs
mld:
I made the mistake of opening several packs of recoil springs at the same time, but fortunately, the springs were not progressive and were of similar lengths, so wire diameter helped me sort them out. I now use clear plastic tubes with end caps to store and organize my springs (each with label inserted), e.g., http://www.uline.com/BL_3702/Clear-Tube-End-Caps.
I made a special tag to indicate which spring was was currently in the a gun and inserted it into the appropriate tube. Wilson makes a spring caddy for organizing your recoil springs, but it's kind of pricy for what it is.
It really is a good idea to taylor your springs to your loads. Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision told me that ejected casings should fall between ca 3 to 5 ft from where your shooting; casings landing further away indicate a spring that is too strong and casings that fall at your feet or frequently fail to eject indicate a weak spring (excluding ejector or other causes...).
Traditional bullseye loads, like a 185gr LSWC over 4.0 grs of be, can compress a 20-lb spring but you don't want to use a spring that strong. I use an 11-lb spring for my be loads in a 6-in 1911. Ejected brass are (more or less) tossed into the brass catcher.
In contrast, my 10mm uses 24 to 28-lb springs. dipnet
I made the mistake of opening several packs of recoil springs at the same time, but fortunately, the springs were not progressive and were of similar lengths, so wire diameter helped me sort them out. I now use clear plastic tubes with end caps to store and organize my springs (each with label inserted), e.g., http://www.uline.com/BL_3702/Clear-Tube-End-Caps.
I made a special tag to indicate which spring was was currently in the a gun and inserted it into the appropriate tube. Wilson makes a spring caddy for organizing your recoil springs, but it's kind of pricy for what it is.
It really is a good idea to taylor your springs to your loads. Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision told me that ejected casings should fall between ca 3 to 5 ft from where your shooting; casings landing further away indicate a spring that is too strong and casings that fall at your feet or frequently fail to eject indicate a weak spring (excluding ejector or other causes...).
Traditional bullseye loads, like a 185gr LSWC over 4.0 grs of be, can compress a 20-lb spring but you don't want to use a spring that strong. I use an 11-lb spring for my be loads in a 6-in 1911. Ejected brass are (more or less) tossed into the brass catcher.
In contrast, my 10mm uses 24 to 28-lb springs. dipnet