TargetTalk

Ok, I am looking to improve my BE score which after practicing alternating with a 22 and 45 for almost a year is only in the low 80's.

Now that I have red dot mounted I see much more movement than I noticed with iron sights. I attribute some movement to not enough endurance in shoulders and arm muscles, and I wonder how much movement is caused by my grip/trigger use. The lightest trigger that I've used (for a brief time only) was on a Les Baer wad 45, which is older and I have some doubts if it is still 3.5 lbs. Most of my 45 shooting has been on a Dan Wesson, trigger I'm guessing is between 4 and 5 lbs.

I feel my grip on conventional grips is a bit uncomfortable related to thumb placement (which I rest on the safety) and possible movement when I squeeze that trigger.

I like the idea of a Fung type grip which I was steered to by info from this site, what do we think about how much it could help?

chiltech500 wrote:Ok, I am looking to improve my BE score which after practicing alternating with a 22 and 45 for almost a year is only in the low 80's.

Now that I have red dot mounted I see much more movement than I noticed with iron sights. I attribute some movement to not enough endurance in shoulders and arm muscles, and I wonder how much movement is caused by my grip/trigger use. The lightest trigger that I've used (for a brief time only) was on a Les Baer wad 45, which is older and I have some doubts if it is still 3.5 lbs. Most of my 45 shooting has been on a Dan Wesson, trigger I'm guessing is between 4 and 5 lbs.

I feel my grip on conventional grips is a bit uncomfortable related to thumb placement (which I rest on the safety) and possible movement when I squeeze that trigger.

I like the idea of a Fung type grip which I was steered to by info from this site, what do we think about how much it could help?

You're seeing more movement throught the dot because your natural wobble is being magnified due to the distance. It may look like more movement but really isnt. Strength training helps considerably. A lighter trigger won't necessarily reduce movement. I find that a 3.5 - 4.25 pound trigger reduced my wobble at 50 yards.

Not saying that you're gripping incorrectly. But, when I learned how to grip the 1911 correctly it became the most natural/comfortable pistol for me to shoot. I use slabs and found no benefit to paying for the anatomicals.

Brian Zins does a fabulous job of explaining the how/why to grip a 1911 in his clinic. He also explains how the trigger is to be manipulated to reduce wobble. I'd highly recommend you attend one of his clinics.

Maybe this will help:


http://www.brianzins.com/category/fundamentals/

I will try to access this site at home, I can't at work (we have screens in place for words: ex; gun, bomb etc) but I can access a few sites like targettalk - but not Bullse-L for some reason.

I have downloaded the US Army Marsmanship Unit's manual and base my grip and trigger squeeze based on this info and some other pointers I have read.

To keep it simple, I get as high a grip as possible up into the grip safety, think push the front strap into the rear with primarily the 3rd and 4th fingers and maintain a firm steady grip as I squeeze the trigger making sure not to squeeze the grip, just the trigger. I was resting my thumb on the safety to try to make sure that I did not use it in any way.

I have found a couple of pistols whose grips felt more natural to me than the 1911, in the Browning Buckmark 22 and my Sig single stack 9mm - yet I am not comfortable with too big a grip like a double stack.

Hi,

This is a really good topic, but is also one of the oldest.
I would suggest having a look at:
"The Pistol Shooters Treasury" by Gil Hebard.
This handy book use to sell for about 5 bucks and was worth every cent.
It will answer many of the fundamental questions (besides the one posted here) related to bullseye pistol.
I sure hope it's still in print!

Best Wishes!
Jim

6string wrote:Hi,

This is a really good topic, but is also one of the oldest.
I would suggest having a look at:
"The Pistol Shooters Treasury" by Gil Hebard.
This handy book use to sell for about 5 bucks and was worth every cent.
It will answer many of the fundamental questions (besides the one posted here) related to bullseye pistol.
I sure hope it's still in print!

Best Wishes!
Jim

Now that Gil has passed and the store is gone you may want to buy soon as you can, bullseye gear .com and champions choice still had them a few weeks ago.

As a follow up, I gave the Herret Nationals grips a try and I have gone back to my VZ grips.

If you're shooting a Dan Wesson .45 without an accuracy job, I doubt you'll be seeing much improvement in your scores.

Shoot your .22 more and see what you can do. (Does it also have a red dot?)

For what it's worth, when I shoot a 1911, I don't rest my thumb on the safety. The meaty pad at the base of the thumb is clamped onto the pistol but the thumb itself is just hanging in space, relaxed.

The digits of the hand like to work together but trigger control is not a team sport.

Rover, sorry for the late reply, yes it has a red dot, in fact it's a 1911 conversion by Nelson. So I am shooting 2 1911's and it's ok using slabs after my experiment.

I have been "pushing" my thumb forward in space. It does not contact the grip. I'm trying to maintain a steady clamp with 3,4,5 so that the trigger finger can function independently of all the others. Probably just need practice.

chiltech500 wrote:Rover, sorry for the late reply, yes it has a red dot, in fact it's a 1911 conversion by Nelson. So I am shooting 2 1911's and it's ok using slabs after my experiment.

I have been "pushing" my thumb forward in space. It does not contact the grip. I'm trying to maintain a steady clamp with 3,4,5 so that the trigger finger can function independently of all the others. Probably just need practice.

The biggest problem I have is gripping unintentionally with either my trigger finger or my middle finger. If I think about relaxing that part of my hand and getting those two fingers off the grip, things seem to go better.

The problem is that the trigger and middle fingers are running off the same tendon in the forearm. Make a fist and move the fingers while feeling about halfway up your forearm and you'll feel it.

It's tricky to move just the trigger finger without affecting the middle finger, but you'll get the hang of it.

I personally found the "straight" .45 grip best for me. It felt pretty good, too.

I do spend quite a bit of time getting my .22, air pistol, and free pistol grips "just so."

Rover I'm not sure what you mean by "straight" grip, i.e. the mechanics of your grip or the actual slabs?

The slabs I use are VZ thin grips and have added a couple of layers of paper under the grip to raise the grip off the frame a bit. I have been experimenting with a Springfield Armory grip wherein the center of the slabs are raised higher than the edges.

For the mechanical grip based on my readings, I try to press the front strap towards the back strap with the part of my fingers near my palm. The tips of the third through fifth digits I try to maintain contact with the grip, but not heavy pressure like the portion of the fingers squeezing the front strap backwards.

To me it feels like I am holding the pistol only with the pressure on the front and rear strap. I try not to squeeze the finger tips at all, and the thumb is definitely off the grip. The web of the thumb is held there by the pressure directed at the front strap.

Does that make sense?

I'm talking about the "heel" (lower rear of the grip) where both straight and curved pieces are available. This part is called the mainspring housing.

might want to try, the wiley clap style slabs, they are thin in front and wide at the rear, viz sells a set with this cut. they rend to push the front strap straight back to the heel of the hand better than regular slabs.

see here...


http://store.mil-tac.com/1911wileyclapp ... dgray.aspx

Dave Lange told me the benefit of anatomical grips is the grip is the same every time

Zinns and other high masters say they use slabs because trigger feel, is better

I am not much better than you and I find I shoot 10 to 50 points better with adjustable grips. And with iron sights it depends if the front strap is checkered.

I have short fingers so get less benefit and had to aggressively modify my RINK grips which is a problem because I am lucky I did not make a mistake.

I would start with Harrett Nationals 60 to 80 dollars is affordable and see if they help.

If a buddy has a set you can try and see that's the way to go because they are expensive rarely seen used like new and not for everyone.

If you can wait 6 months FunG will make fully custom grips. RINK, Karl Nil, and Morani are the three best anatomicals but you have to custo ize them. I have used NILS and Rink. I like the adjustable feature of the NILS but the Rink grips are more comfortable. NILs gave me a sore arm so I sold them before hacking them.

I find a big benefit is it balances the gun with dots mounted and make it seem less heavy.

If you buy a set of anatomicals Era with buying a size up because you sand sand down spots where it's needed in very small steps otherwise you have a 250 dollar broom handle.

If you need to add with putty I suggest sugru.....better then bond and easier to remove or add.

Thanks Tt

I did buy Herrett nationals and have sanded various parts down but clearly not enough yet. I went back to slabs for a while but they are feeling too thin, i.e. flat. I boosted them off the frame with a couple layers of thick paper but that hasn't done it for me.

I will go back to the herretts and attack with sandpaper this w/e to give them another go. Frankly I bought a used Ruger 45acp revolver and can shoot better with it than my varied 1911's, noticeably better. It has nice short rounded grips and feels perfect in my smaller hand.

check out CMM, the people that make the brass catchers, they sell grip spacers made of aluminum in different thickness

Try a trigger shoe added 100 points to my 900

I do like the feel of my pardini grips on the .22 and .32 but when I tried to use custom grips on my 1911 it never really felt right. I went back to shooting with the slab sides.