Muzzle rise in sustained fire

[GeorgeG]

I am new to Bullseye, putting my time in learning, training, practicing and currently competing in my local 900 league matches with a Model 41/Matchdot and shooting at the 81X level.

I need some perspective on the subject of sustained fire recoil control. I feel that I have a pretty good handle on what good technique looks like and I am steadily improving. What I don't have is a "picture" of what world class vertical recoil control looks like. IOW, how much muzle rise do Master level shooters have in sustained fire? Does the dot or sight picture always stay in the black, stay within the 6 ring, etc? Obviously the ideal condition would be a dot that stays in the 10 ring for 10 seconds but what is reality for shooters at the 850+ level?

It was humbling to learn that the dot/point of aim/wobble stays in the 10 ring 85% of the time for the Army shooting team after settling in during slow fire (my wobble has a ways to go).

Thanks,

George

[dronning]

Muzzle rise direction and amount varies with shooter but what is really important is where the dot settles after recoil. With a good position/hold the dot should return exactly or close to where the shot broke.

Just like you need to accept your wobble the recoil is the recoil and trying to control it I think would cause anticipation. There are training methods out there that help improve your hold and reduce you wobble.

[GeorgeG]

That is certainly another way of framing the objective.

Thanks.

[Isabel1130]

That is certainly another way of framing the objective.

Thanks.

One of the keys is to not let your wrist break. When shooting a dot, it often appears that the gun is moving completely off the target, but if you don't start adjusting your sight picture by moving your wrist and elbow, the recoil with a 22 will not take the sights off the target.
The 45 is a bit more tricky.

But think about moving the sights back into the black by adjusting from your shoulder. It takes a lot of drill, and some strength training is also useful.

[crankythunder]

First off, let me congratulate you for scoring 810 or better as a newbie bullseye shooter. you have achieved what takes most shooters four or five years to accomplish.

Now while I am by no way a high master or superior shooter, I have had significant success in concentration on the recoil from the shot and mentally preparing for the recoil and making sure that the recoil is consistent, verticle recoil with a touch leaning to the left.

At that level of competition you obviously have the five commandments down pat, stance, grip breathing, sight alignment, and then trigger control, and I wish that there was a way to coach recoil management. more of a mental thing.

anyways, I offer you the best and I hope this helps.

Regards,
Cranky

[GeorgeG]

One of the training elements that helped get a good start as a new shooter was the concept of natural point of aim using as much bone as possible. Lateral position is easy enough by moving the rear foot. Vertical natural point of aim is more complicated as it involves the head, arm, wrist lock, and pistol grip angle. I find that the 104 degree grip angle of my 41 is not ideal for me. i would open my eyes to a perfect sight picture with 3-4 degrees of additional grip angle. Must be one of the reasons that I like my 108 degree 1911's so much. I am looking into anatomical grips that might help me with my 41. Beyond that the European pistols are very interesting. Some have a 1911 grip angle or very close but some of the more popular ones like the Pardini have a very raked grip angle - 123 degrees in that case. Do people chose a pistol with such a radical grip angle because that is their natural point of aim or because it is believed that locking your wrist at this unique angle improves performance regardless of how you point a 1911?

[Isabel1130]

One of the traing elements that helped get a good start as a new shooter was the concept of natural point of aim using as much bone as possible. Lateral position is easy enough by moving the rear foot. Vertical natural point of aim is more complicated as it involves the head, arm, wrist lock, and pistol grip angle. I find that the 104 degree grip angle of my 41 is not ideal for me. i would open my eyes to a perfect sight picture with 3-4 degrees of additional grip angle. Must be one of the reasons that I like my 108 degree 1911's so much. I am looking into anatomical grips that might help me with my 41. Beyond that the European pistols are very interesting. Some have a 1911 grip angle or very close but some of the more popular ones like the Pardini have a very raked grip angle - 123 degrees in that case. Do people chose a pistol with such a radical grip angle because that is their natural point of aim or because it is believed that locking your wrist at this unique angle improves performance regardless of how you point a 1911?

There are two important things, in my mind about grip, and grip angle. The first it making sure it puts your trigger finger at the same point, and angle to the trigger every darn time. The second is, does it allow you to hold the gun, in such a way that as much of the recoil as possible is transferred straight back through your arm?

One of the issues with a lot of rake in the grip, is it can force you to shoot with a dropped wrist, which is fine for slow fire, but can be a poor position for recoil control when shooting centerfire or 45.

Anatomical grips will really help some people shoot better, especially if you have a tendency to grip the front strap too hard with your fingers, in timed and rapid fire. Anatomical grips allow you hold the gun in place in your hand more easily, without much finger pressure.