TargetTalk

OK, this is what some of you have been waiting for, Zhuhai Qiang Yuan Match, ie, the cheap Chinese crap which you guys all say, vs. RWS Meisterkugeln, which is my personal non top grade favorite pellets. Both are 4.5mm, 0.53g.

QY "Match" is the lowest grade pellets made by Zhuhai Qiang Yuan, after "Olympic Excellence", and "Standard". It is designed for "training". RWS "Meisterkugeln" is the second highest grade the company offers, after "R-10". The equivalent "training" pellets that RWS offers is the "Club", the third grade, although RWS does produce "Diabolo Basic" which is one grade lower than "Club", and is the lowest grade they have to offer.

The arm used is my Steyr LP10. The pistol is securely held in a vise to prevent any movement. The distance is 10m.

Each brand was fired four batches of five shots each. To make sure I measure it correctly I used my watchmaker ruler..I think that is good enough for now. The measurement is of the "diameter" of the group.

Test date: 7/19/2013
Arm: Steyr LP10
Distance: 10m
Target: Standard 5 target rifle target paper.

Zhuhai Qiang Yuan Match:
7mm, 9mm, 10mm, 14mm
RWS Meisterkugeln:
10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 17mm


RWS is the ONLY one with a flier (hence the 17mm, discounting that flyer it will be 8mm), that is, one flier out of all 40 shots between them.

The mean is 10mm (QY Match) & 12.5mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)
The median is 9.5mm (QY Match) & 11.5mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)
The range is 7mm (QY Match) & 7mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)

If we discount that one single flier from RWS, it will look like this instead:
RWS Meisterkugeln:
10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 8mm
The mean is 10mm (QY Match) & 10.25mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)
The median is 9.5mm (QY Match) & 10.5mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)
The range is 7mm (QY Match) & 4mm (RWS Meisterkugeln)

Overall the RWS has one good looking tight group (10mm), while the QY has two (7mm & 9mm), whether you want to count the 10mm QY group in the photo as tight and nice is up to you.

Of course one can say this test means very little, and it only applies to this particular pistol, and applies only to the particular batches of pellet production.

Misses tried out both pellets on the Haemmerli AR20 air rifle, reported that she felt no difference, ie, there was nothing wrong with QY Match. I also shot QY Match on the LP10, I have to report that there is no difference. An examination of the can of QY Match shows that the pellets are good and consistent, we cannot spot any bad pellet while fishing the can around. The QY Match pellets are clean, just like the RWS Meisterkugeln.

The RWS Meisterkugeln is still my favorite, but I have to say I am confidant of using the QY Match from now on. On this test the QY Match won out. YMMV. It is definitely not "cheap Chinese crap".

Um...
5-shot groups indicate what?

Man, you need to catch up on sleep.

I would question your test results. Looking at the groups I think your pistol is not solid enough in the vise.

You did mount the pistol in the vise by the trigger guard as per the manufacturers instruction, didn't you? One shot a minute, per instructions?

Your groups look like crap. I wouldn't use either brand. Dont be so cheap; five shot groups mean nothing.

Your pistol isn't properly secured.
The vise can´t move at ALL... and even then you have to be EXTREMELY careful when loading so that the gun stays in exactly the same place.
A very tiny movement in the pistol even when clamped in the vice is enough to open a group.

Those groups are way too big for your lp10.

Hope this helps

I'll do it again. Thanks.

Did I miss something? I thought you wanted to test these pellets for use in your AR rifle, not your pistol?

Yeah, I'll third or whatever on the vise stability, as those seem kind of scattered for a bench test. Through my Pardini K10 I've put as many as 20 pellets through a hole with a largest dimension of less than 11mm outside the two widest-spread shots, using RWS Hobby. Most 10-shot Hobby groups have been inside a 9mm circle at 10 metres. Wish I could shoot like that... but then don't we all?

And that's another quibble with your reporting; Hobby pellets are one grade below Basic, or at least they appear to be in my examination of the quality of finish and consistency. Hobby would be the lowest RWS grade with Basic considerably more refined in appearance and consistency. Not that it makes a huge difference in vise test results.

Randy152 wrote:Did I miss something? I thought you wanted to test these pellets for use in your AR rifle, not your pistol?

I need to figure out a way to clamp the AR. I don't have the necessary hardware to clamp it down. I can make the AR so tight on the off hand stand that it will not move at all, but the off ahdn stand is unstable. It is easier right now to test them on a pistol first, I think I have the right clamps somewhere. I think the biggest fault of the experiment last night was actually the bench was not stable. I think I will do at least a 10 shot group. I do recall I did a batch test on R-10 before, ten shots, all inner 10s with a minor deviation to the outside. Maybe 5.25mm at most. Now that's accurate. (that means 0.75mm)

When I've done bench testing on my Pardini I've put the pistol in a 4" Record vise mounted securely (several large iron C clamps) to my 250 pound workbench which has no wobble whatsoever, and an additional 150 pounds of weights put on the bench. I've ensured leaving a 1 minute interval between shots, and have stood in exactly the same spot throughout each group as the floors in my 100 year old house are a bit creaky when I walk around. I also ensure there is zero wind at the time of testing as my trap is mounted outside in a hanging tube off the porch, and while I can secure it there still might be some movement if a gust comes up. It's boring, but assures accurate group testing. Basically if you can hit the pistol with 1 or 2 pounds of force and see it wobble, it's not secured sufficiently.

I cant believe that I own a 25 year old 777 that out-shoots a Steyr... Thanks for showing me how good my gun really is.

hi all
just a say i use the "QY" Qiang Yuan pellets over the RWS R10 as the finish is far clean sharper on the QY's
peace of mine when u open up a tin or a box

best price i found is the UK dealer they match R10 500pcs tin prices @ £8.50 for training and A grade £8.50 shipped
plus they have thousands in stock so batch test is not a problem

qiangyuanuk@gmail.com

spektr wrote:I cant believe that I own a 25 year old 777 that out-shoots a Steyr... Thanks for showing me how good my gun really is.

Any pistol can outshoot a Steyr if the Steyr is clamped tightly on a bench that wobbles. The only way to test it is to have your 777 and my Steyr both clamped tightly on the same wobbly bench and see what happens.

conradin wrote:The only way to test it is to have your 777 and my Steyr both clamped tightly on the same wobbly bench and see what happens.

You'll get totally meaningless results in both cases.

Don't bother wasting your time and money testing in such circumstances. It will tell you NOTHING USEFUL.

OK, I think I am done with this thread.

conradin

With results like that I would be very concerned of damage to the bore from improper cleaning or some other abuse. Your rig with cheap daisy pellets should yield better results if you were crazy enough to run those nasty things though your gun.

Also rather than test with a questionable vise you may be better off just shooting off sand bags. If possible mount a scope to test but don’t zero otherwise you will shoot out your POA. IMO all this is not even necessary unless you are running long strings of tens or finding yourself in finals on a regular basis.

If you have access to a SCATT you may wish to try the procedure outlined on page 108 of the book Air Rifle Shooting. Whilst offered as a rifle procedure it could with a little modfication be used for pistol. The use of an electronic target is useful but not essential.

This method has the added advantage that it makes you really concentrate on your trigger technique.

Rutty

spektr wrote:I cant believe that I own a 25 year old 777 that out-shoots a Steyr... Thanks for showing me how good my gun really is.

My Crosman Challenger, though a rifle, shoot groups less than half the size pictured. Always under 6MM. Usually 5.

On a sandbag.

Mike

Gerard wrote:
And that's another quibble with your reporting; Hobby pellets are one grade below Basic, or at least they appear to be in my examination of the quality of finish and consistency. Hobby would be the lowest RWS grade with Basic considerably more refined in appearance and consistency. Not that it makes a huge difference in vise test results.

I believe Hobby pellets are above Basic. At least they are price wise. Hobby's are $1 a tin more than Basic. In my testing R10, Meisterkugln, and Basic all shot very similar. Hobby however shot noticeably worse but thats ok with me Basics are cheaper anyway.

Scott