TargetTalk

Haven't seen Sergai Martinof in any matches since the 2012 Olympics. Did he retire? Doesn't he like the new scoring format and called it quits?

Thanks

I presume you mean Sergei Martynov.

38th in the Prone at the Munich World Cup.

Entered for the Granada World Cup.

David Levene wrote:I presume you mean Sergei Martynov.

38th in the Prone at the Munich World Cup.

Entered for the Granada World Cup.

Yes, Sergei Martynov. Thought I had the spelling right from memory.

38th at Munich, WOW. Guess I just got used to seeing him at the finals, not 38th.

Thanks

Running out of Olymp-R? :)

From everything that I have witnessed in the shooting sports to date, sometimes the best have an off day and sometimes the under dogs have a great day.

It is just the way it is.

Clarence

He is quite simply the Worlds greatest ever prone shooter.He has nothing to prove.

Check the lifetime record of Lones Wigger before you declare the best ever.

dontshootcritters wrote:He is quite simply the Worlds greatest ever prone shooter.He has nothing to prove.

Well, this generations, but not all time.

conradin wrote:

dontshootcritters wrote:He is quite simply the Worlds greatest ever prone shooter.He has nothing to prove.

Well, this generations, but not all time.

agreed. Most definitely the best of this generation(in my opinion of course), although him being the best of all time is quite debatable.

By any standard you care to measure him by, Sergei Martynov is the best international prone shooter of all time. Three Olympic medals, two world championships, and more world records than any other three shooters combined. Wigger may have been great at 3p, but Martynov dominated and still dominates in prone.

Eric U

Well there you go.Eric is obviously in a better position to comment than anyone else here by a large margin I would suggest.As I said Sergei is the greatest prone shooter of all time.Prone being the operative word here.Not saying anything against Mr Wigger.Not for a second

dontshootcritters wrote:He is quite simply the Worlds greatest ever prone shooter.He has nothing to prove.

With respect it's totally irrelevant to the discussion. He's a competitor, he wants to win just like all the rest, he's just much better at it than most. People also seem to forget that shooters train to peak for the big matches. The current world cups whilst important count for zero in terms of Olympic qualification, as that doesn't start until next years world championships. That may or may not be relevant as I don't know Sergeis training regime. Also of note is that Munich was very cold, and that won't help most shooters. In a few days time you'll see how he faired in Spain.

Rob.

Konrad Stäheli is the greatest prone rifle shooter of all time. Bar none. Four major championships. Sergei Martynov does not have that amount, but has a lot of WC and WCF wins, both of which are not considered major.

Of course, it is quite unfair to compare ANYBODY to Konrad Stäheli . This is a man who could win any contest that involved the fire-powder projectile. I don't think the record of the amount of medals that he has will ever be broken.

This is a guy who uses a Swiss Luger to win a world championship (free pistol) in 1906. It went totally against the norm. As far as one concern you could have given him any pistol or rifle and he can get a medal anytime.

I dunno, overall medal count (individual only) Martynov has 15 or so more medals (59 total according to my rough counting on the ISSF website). That combined with 6 world records, to me, makes Martynov the better prone shooter.

Sergei is shooting in Granada tonight

bpscCheney wrote:I dunno, overall medal count (individual only) Martynov has 15 or so more medals (59 total according to my rough counting on the ISSF website). That combined with 6 world records, to me, makes Martynov the better prone shooter.

Martynov has 1 Olympic and 2 world championships in prone, 6 WCF Gold, 17 WC Gold. However, 23 out of 26 are 50M prone. The other two are AP60 and 3 position 50. All three are WC wins.
Stäheli has 1 Olympic and 22 World championships, the last one came in 1914 (WWI). Four of them 300m Prone.
IMHO Stäheli is a better shooter than Martynov because he has more models in the combined Olympics and World Championships in prone, and he shot 300m as opposed to 50m.
Martinov has 49 medals in total; Stäheli 46. But the latter are all from the Olympics and the World Championships. Both Pistols and Rifles (3x, stand, knee, prone positions).
And here is what's mind blowing, Stäheli competed in a total of 49 events. That means only three out of 49 times did he not medal.

Comparing athletes from different eras is always going to stir up controversy, so here goes...

With all due respect, the Olympics and world championships were a much different animal back in the early 1900's. First of all, there was a world championship every year, so to me it is a much less significant event...probably more along the lines of a World Cup or World Cup final. They also gave medals for each position in the three-position events, which is where Konrad got all his "world championships" in prone (no Olympic medals in prone by the way). Just because he shot 300m instead of 50m doesn't make his accomplishments any more or less significant than Martynov's.

Governments didn't pour vast amounts of money and resources into sport back then like they do now. The talent pool was less, and the full-time sport participant was limited to the independently wealthy. It was truly amateur in every respect. Since 1992 (and even earlier in the Soviet Bloc) there were professional athletes in every sport. There is a lot of money to be made and in some cases lifetime pensions riding on Olympic success. Thus more effort and expense expended in that pursuit.

While the ISSF website lists Konrad's accomplishments, older archives only list medals won and Olympic results. He could have competed in and placed poorly in many more competitions that we will never know about. Clearly a great shooter, but...

With his three Olympic medals in prone and two consecutive world championships, along with myriad records and other wins, in today's very deep and competitive talent pool, I still put Martynov on top.

Eric U

Eric U wrote:Comparing athletes from different eras is always going to stir up controversy, so here goes...

With all due respect, the Olympics and world championships were a much different animal back in the early 1900's. First of all, there was a world championship every year, so to me it is a much less significant event...probably more along the lines of a World Cup or World Cup final. They also gave medals for each position in the three-position events, which is where Konrad got all his "world championships" in prone (no Olympic medals in prone by the way). Just because he shot 300m instead of 50m doesn't make his accomplishments any more or less significant than Martynov's.

Governments didn't pour vast amounts of money and resources into sport back then like they do now. The talent pool was less, and the full-time sport participant was limited to the independently wealthy. It was truly amateur in every respect. Since 1992 (and even earlier in the Soviet Bloc) there were professional athletes in every sport. There is a lot of money to be made and in some cases lifetime pensions riding on Olympic success. Thus more effort and expense expended in that pursuit.

While the ISSF website lists Konrad's accomplishments, older archives only list medals won and Olympic results. He could have competed in and placed poorly in many more competitions that we will never know about. Clearly a great shooter, but...

With his three Olympic medals in prone and two consecutive world championships, along with myriad records and other wins, in today's very deep and competitive talent pool, I still put Martynov on top.

Eric U

I still feel that 300M prone is more difficult than 50M no matter what era it is. Also with the equipment they have, Martyvnov has it easy. I own free pistols that won 1896, 1900, 1908, 1912, 1920 Olympics. I was shocked how difficult it is to shoot these things and how they managed to achieve the scores is beyond my imagination. I also have the 1936 silver model (1939 WCH winner), and the Haemmerli 100 (48, 52, 56, and the 101 model 64), and suddenly we are in the TOZ_35 type pistol. Everything is so much easier and higher scores are much easier to achieve. Then I have the Morini (04, 08, 12)which is my competition pistol, I achieve higher score with it.
I also have to look at the equipment standpoint....

As for WCH being an yearly evenet vs. WCF being an yearly event...I am not sure which is more "important"...

BTW, where are you right now?

conradin wrote:I still feel that 300M prone is more difficult than 50M no matter what era it is.

All you have to do to win a Gold medal at either distance is beat all of the other competitors.

As the level of difficulty is the same for all competitors in the event then just comparing the number of medals won is no indication of comparative difficulty of each event or the absolute ability/quality of the competitor.

That is true, sounds like there is no comparison, as in it is impossible to compare.