Hello everyone. Looking for some advice. I am buying a high end 22 pistol for bullseye/international pistol. I currenty shoot a model 41 and and extremely happy with it. I can't really make any excuses except I want another 22 to bring to the line. Throughout the year I shoot indoor bullseye at 50 feet in the winter, summer outdoor 25 yard bullseye with occasional 45 matches (we shoot a modified gallery match version where we can shoot .22 or any centerfire/45 gun we wish), and a summer and winter air pistol league. I have always been intrigued by the GSP Expert, but was recently looking at the Pardini SP Bullseye, and the AW93. I am an iron sights shooter, so decent sights are important to me. I love the adjustability of my Walther LP400 irons. I am torn, as it is difficult to try these guns. I have not shot any of them. I must admit that I love the fast recovery and balance of my model 41, so a gun that can recover quicky for timed and rapid fire would be nice. Also, with the recent ammo shortage I have limited supply of Standard Velocity ammo, so a gun that is not picky with it's diet would be a bonus. I current am forced to shoot a supply of CCI Blazer which I run an 8 pound recoil spring, and a buffer in my 41 for protection from slamming. I can't knock the ammo too because it chronographed nicely, and I have had 2 misfires and 0 failure to feed/stovepipes, ect. in over 5,000 rounds. It is important to me to be able to be flexible with the ammo I shoot in the gun. I hate to be one of those guys who post a "what gun do I get", but since I can't try any of these, it would be nice to hear from those would have.
Thanks Everyone for your time! Happy Shooting!
Walther GSP Expert, Pardini SP, AW93
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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NDbullseye
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:14 pm
I personally went with a Pardini SP Bullseye. I am currently shooting Iron Sights as well. I really do like the sights on mine. The recoil recover is excellent and the trigger is one of my favorites to date.
The Walthers are also a really good gun. There are a couple guys up here that have the GSPs and seem to have really good luck with them. I would say these two are probably the least problem-matic when it comes to ammo.
My pardini love cci std velocity for ammo and anything else inbetween. I would stay away from anything that isn't std velocity in any of the pistols you have listed. You run a risk of hammering them out. The nature of the european 22s are designed around using std velocity ammo. I have haven't had or seen many alibis with the walthers or the pardinis that are on the line up in this neck of the woods.
I would try and find someone close by that has one the pistols you want and try them. I tried a walther and wasn't a fan and went the pardini on a gut feeling that I would like it better and havent' looked back yet.
The Walthers are also a really good gun. There are a couple guys up here that have the GSPs and seem to have really good luck with them. I would say these two are probably the least problem-matic when it comes to ammo.
My pardini love cci std velocity for ammo and anything else inbetween. I would stay away from anything that isn't std velocity in any of the pistols you have listed. You run a risk of hammering them out. The nature of the european 22s are designed around using std velocity ammo. I have haven't had or seen many alibis with the walthers or the pardinis that are on the line up in this neck of the woods.
I would try and find someone close by that has one the pistols you want and try them. I tried a walther and wasn't a fan and went the pardini on a gut feeling that I would like it better and havent' looked back yet.
Of your LP400 and Model 41, which feels better in your hand?
I recently bought a Pardini, have owned a GSP (recently bought a GSP expert reasonably cheap), and have handled an AW93.
All these guns were designed around a steady diet of standard velocity ammo. Go ahead and stock up from one of the major precision pistol dealers like ISS or Champions Choice. Buying from Wal-Mart is the sign of a duffer.
As to the guns...the Pardini has a VERY raked grip. If you think the Model 41 is comfy, you may not like the Pardini much. If you prefer a lot of rake in the grip of your air pistol, you'll like a Pardini. Older guns have a rolling trigger release, but the Bullseye model comes with a quite crisp two-stage trigger. The sights on a Pardini are adjustable for width, feel free to tweak.
The GSP? More like a .45 in grip angle. The trigger is OK, but generally not considered the best out there. The sights have a replaceable rear sight blade, swapping them out is extremely easy. My old one had one habit...it would not run reliably clean. Put 20 rounds through it, and it was quite reliable.
The AW93 is also more like a .45. Excellent trigger, the gun is generally considered to be the heir to the Hammerli 208 in this regard. Rear sight is adjustable for width.
For what it's worth, if you look at the stats for ISSF Standard Pistol from the 2010 World Championships, the Pardini accounted for ~50% of the field. The GSP accounted for 14%, the AW93 for 6%.
I recently bought a Pardini, have owned a GSP (recently bought a GSP expert reasonably cheap), and have handled an AW93.
All these guns were designed around a steady diet of standard velocity ammo. Go ahead and stock up from one of the major precision pistol dealers like ISS or Champions Choice. Buying from Wal-Mart is the sign of a duffer.
As to the guns...the Pardini has a VERY raked grip. If you think the Model 41 is comfy, you may not like the Pardini much. If you prefer a lot of rake in the grip of your air pistol, you'll like a Pardini. Older guns have a rolling trigger release, but the Bullseye model comes with a quite crisp two-stage trigger. The sights on a Pardini are adjustable for width, feel free to tweak.
The GSP? More like a .45 in grip angle. The trigger is OK, but generally not considered the best out there. The sights have a replaceable rear sight blade, swapping them out is extremely easy. My old one had one habit...it would not run reliably clean. Put 20 rounds through it, and it was quite reliable.
The AW93 is also more like a .45. Excellent trigger, the gun is generally considered to be the heir to the Hammerli 208 in this regard. Rear sight is adjustable for width.
For what it's worth, if you look at the stats for ISSF Standard Pistol from the 2010 World Championships, the Pardini accounted for ~50% of the field. The GSP accounted for 14%, the AW93 for 6%.
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Jon Eulette
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:13 pm
GSP's
The GSP's are nose heavy. If you don't like shooting a heavier pistol, I'd steer away from it.
I used to shoot for the AMU. When I used to shoot one I never had a malfunction. Was using RWS and Eley. Probably shot 30,000 rds through it. Also shot the .32 with good success. If I remember right, I was using Lapua .32 ammo. Shot military rapid fire with it. Shot them daily for weeks on end and many, many rounds through them.
I really like them. I prefer the models from the 1990's with the normal barrel and the trigger that drops down from the top. They had plastic adjustable trigger. Great Pull! The older GSP's had silver triggers that came up from the bottom. Those are the pistols with the nasty trigger pull.
Older Pardini's are known for the frames cracking. So get a newer one.
If your thinking standard pistol, your 41 is fine. I remember seeing some great scores from 41's and High Standards at matches I've shot. If your thinking about rapid fire, I'd get a Euro pistol because of the 2 stage triggers.
I used to shoot for the AMU. When I used to shoot one I never had a malfunction. Was using RWS and Eley. Probably shot 30,000 rds through it. Also shot the .32 with good success. If I remember right, I was using Lapua .32 ammo. Shot military rapid fire with it. Shot them daily for weeks on end and many, many rounds through them.
I really like them. I prefer the models from the 1990's with the normal barrel and the trigger that drops down from the top. They had plastic adjustable trigger. Great Pull! The older GSP's had silver triggers that came up from the bottom. Those are the pistols with the nasty trigger pull.
Older Pardini's are known for the frames cracking. So get a newer one.
If your thinking standard pistol, your 41 is fine. I remember seeing some great scores from 41's and High Standards at matches I've shot. If your thinking about rapid fire, I'd get a Euro pistol because of the 2 stage triggers.
Thanks for all your advice guys. It is greatly appreciated. Anyone of you wouldn't happen to be located near New Hampshire would you? I am trying to track down a couple of people who have these guns to try them. Definately has to be the hardest decision I have made in while. Spoke to Earl about the GSP, will probably call Champ Choice and Pardini to speak with them about the others. Larry Carter is not far from me and he used to deal with Pardini, but I guess he dropped that line of guns. Thanks again for the advice!
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mr alexander
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:47 pm
Walther, Pardini, and the Rest
craigp,
One thing to consider at this time. I shot with iron sights when I started
Bullseye way back in 1978. But things have changed for me since then.
Made the switch to UltraDot Sights in 2002. With my High Standard
Victor, installation was simple and easy. Took off the 3 screws that held
the iron sight rib onto the barrel and mounted a High Standard-made
Scope Base in it's place. No gunsmith required for this. I appreciate the
fact that you are currently using iron sights. But, if you ever need to go
to a dot sometime down the road, just how will you be able to mount it
on the pistol you have? Will the mounting method available appeal to
you? Will you like the gun's balance? Something to consider before
buying that new gun? My 2 cents.
One thing to consider at this time. I shot with iron sights when I started
Bullseye way back in 1978. But things have changed for me since then.
Made the switch to UltraDot Sights in 2002. With my High Standard
Victor, installation was simple and easy. Took off the 3 screws that held
the iron sight rib onto the barrel and mounted a High Standard-made
Scope Base in it's place. No gunsmith required for this. I appreciate the
fact that you are currently using iron sights. But, if you ever need to go
to a dot sometime down the road, just how will you be able to mount it
on the pistol you have? Will the mounting method available appeal to
you? Will you like the gun's balance? Something to consider before
buying that new gun? My 2 cents.
If you like the iron sights on your 41, you will love the ones on the European pistols, especially the adjustable for width ones. The biggest difference of all the pistols is the rake angle on the grips. Some people get bothered by too much rake getting a sore wrist or elbow so make sure that won't bother you. All of the Euro pistols with more rake especially the Pardini and Benelli 95 will raise less during sustained fire. An older High Standard also is easy to shoot iron sights but most of them have a square 1911 type of angle but with excellent iron sights and triggers. I feel like the 41 has the worse irons in the group because of the too wide rear sight. Otherwise it is a fine gun.
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Trooperjake
- Posts: 794
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:22 pm
- Location: Cookeville, TN
Went with the gsp expert. I am so far very happy with it. Recoil is straight back and very light. By far the best target gun i havr ever shot. Even though it.has a slightly different rake and angle, i love the way the.grips feel. Gun fits me like a glove. The first stage on the trigger has barely any takeup and the second stagr.breaks like.glass. Very similar to the 41 in my opinion. The gun also is not at all picky. CCI standard, federal target, and winchester t22 all work without a hiccup. I also havr to recommend Earl. He was awesome to deal with. Had the gun in 3 days. He was a little more than champ choice, but his knowledge is priceless. Magazines seemseem to be cheaper than others also. SoSo far i am very happy with the irons as well. Came with 2 front sights and 3 rear sight blades. The weight has a nice balance to me. The recovery during timed and rapid fire is amazing. Thanks for all the help everyone. Happy shooting.
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Jerry Keefer
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:34 am
- Location: Maidens, Va.
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Jerry Keefer
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:34 am
- Location: Maidens, Va.
Dave,
Dick Horton Match Grips
905 Apricot Ave.
Mt. Vernon, Ill 62864
618-244-3389
Horton1@charter.net
Jerry
Dick Horton Match Grips
905 Apricot Ave.
Mt. Vernon, Ill 62864
618-244-3389
Horton1@charter.net
Jerry
Jerry, I always learn from your posts and would be grateful to know what aspects of the Pardini you like and any weaknesses you see.Jerry Keefer wrote:Just a note...
I am an advocate of the Pardini..
If the grip angle is objectionable to a shooter, Dick Horton makes a grip that coverts the Pardini to the 1911 angle.
Jerry
Thanks,
Spence
Pardini SP22
Shooter's Box sells a compensator made from billet alumium for SP22. I get quite a jet of gasses straight up from the bore, resulting is a seemingly increased reduction in perceived recoil. I took off my Nygord grips and went with Rink upswepts. I have never shot HV ammo thru it, as I get lightening quick ejection with SV. The four dot Ultradot has been a nice upgrade. I do hope my frame doesn't crack. My two Trailsides have held up too, in spite of those cracking rumors. Larry Carter put in his triggers to my extreme pleasure. My steel framed HS Victor, Trophy and M-41 Smith, being steel guns probably with outlive alloy frames. Pardini and HS seem to have different triggers, though both are fine with me. The M-41 has less than a wonderful trigger. Too bad the M41 doesn't have the M52 trigger in it!
Pardini... Has done the job for years. Still does it, 80% of elite Olympic shooters use it: Ralf Schumann, Christian Reitz, Emil Milev, Akiyama, Pupo, most of the Russians (Klimov is the only one who shoots Benelli) and all the Chinese guys... ISSF women like it too... I have 2 of the SP's and love them as my own kids! But, since the competition format has changed, and it takes years to train and get the max. out of any pistol, Walther SSP has the future. Pardini (my opinion, please don't kill me, Pardini lovers!!!) is just like a flip Motorola Razor phone we all liked, but the SSP is iPhone 5 or the Samsung Galaxy S4. Again, remember, it takes no time for us to adapt to a new phone but it takes years to adapt to a new gun. The SSP has only been around for 5-6 years. I really think, and unless Pardini steps up and stops thinking "today", and invests in "tomorrow's" technology, Walther SSP has a great chance to, if not overtake, then at least take a share of the Pardini-dominated market of high end competition pistols. You will see more of the SSP in future Olympics and WC used predominantly by younger upcoming shooters. Also, the only reason you have not been able to get any Benelli's from Larry's Guns in the last 6 months (still ticking!) is because Benelli is making a major change to the MP90S and the lower end MP95E product lines. And Benelli really needed this too, both models have not changed since the 90's and were due for major upgrades.
Last edited by Van_Zant on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
