TargetTalk

It seems that everyone has his/her opinion about mechanical and electronic triggers. How about a gun that has both triggers? It also has direct air to the pellet, with a reduction of 35% of the barrel time.

The Match Guns MGH1 looks promising...


http://www.matchguns.com/schedaprodotto.asp?prod_id=20


http://youtu.be/sALWtGeupm8

Do you own one of these? What is your opinion of the trigger?

kaban56 wrote:Do you own one of these? What is your opinion of the trigger?

No, I do not have this pistol, but would like to hear from someone who has handled this particular gun. It seems that it may give Morini and Steyr a run for their money...

Only Cesare would design a trigger based on the electronics failing ;-)
(I have had a 162EI for over 10 years. I routinely change the batteries once a year and have never had a failure.)

I'm not at all keen on the idea that once you've put a pellet in the gun the only way of getting it out is to fire it.

It is not possible to use a CBI (safety flag) in this gun. You will always have to agree special safety procedures with the match officials.

Having said all of that, I know someone who's got one and loves it.

I do own one of these. It is a very interesting piece. It shoots great, it fits me very well. It is a bit front-heavy, but that's the way I like it. I am using an extra weight to make it more front-heavy.

As far as the trigger goes, it is a bit tricky. You cannot shoot in electronic mode and continue in mechanical mode. I mean you can do it, but the trigger pull weight is different between two modes. So if your battery dies in the middle of the match and you don't have a spare, you can continue shooting the match in mechanical mode, but the trigger weight will be different. Not by much, but still....

I think the best way to use this trigger is to try both modes, pick the one you like the best, and just stick to it.

As the above poster states, the trigger weights are different mechanical v electronic. It would seem sensible to use the electronic trigger but have mechanical in the case of a malfunction / dead battery. There would be no point using the mechanical trigger plus if EQ turned it on to test the trigger weight, it may well fail - as I understand it mechanical is the heavier trigger.

Rob.

Rob, that raises an interesting question for EQ.

Should they be required to check the trigger in both modes?

If you intend to shoot mechanical trigger only, removing the battery ought to give the judges peace of mind.

luftskytter wrote:If you intend to shoot mechanical trigger only, removing the battery ought to give the judges peace of mind.

How do the judge know what trigger mode has been tested ? You have the sticker on your pistol but it doesn't tell what mode has been tested ? Nothing prevents you to put the battery once you have passed the control (and remove it after your last shot in case of an after match control).

If I was a judge, before giving the sticker, I would ask to test both trigger modes even if there is no battery inserted. Same after the match. And refuse the pistol if any of the two trigger modes doesn't pass.

jipe wrote:

luftskytter wrote:If you intend to shoot mechanical trigger only, removing the battery ought to give the judges peace of mind.

How do the judge know what trigger mode has been tested ? You have the sticker on your pistol but it doesn't tell what mode has been tested ?

I would expect the EC Officer to make a note on the EC form which trigger actions have been tested; or am I expecting too much common sense (I don't think so).

David Levene wrote:

jipe wrote:

luftskytter wrote:If you intend to shoot mechanical trigger only, removing the battery ought to give the judges peace of mind.

How do the judge know what trigger mode has been tested ? You have the sticker on your pistol but it doesn't tell what mode has been tested ?

I would expect the EC Officer to make a note on the EC form which trigger actions have been tested; or am I expecting too much common sense (I don't think so).

And then, how can the judge check if the shooter uses the other one ?

jipe wrote:

David Levene wrote:

jipe wrote:

luftskytter wrote:If you intend to shoot mechanical trigger only, removing the battery ought to give the judges peace of mind.

How do the judge know what trigger mode has been tested ? You have the sticker on your pistol but it doesn't tell what mode has been tested ?

I would expect the EC Officer to make a note on the EC form which trigger actions have been tested; or am I expecting too much common sense (I don't think so).

And then, how can the judge check if the shooter uses the other one ?

Observation.

If the shooter is determined to cheat (in any way), and hide the fact, then it can be difficult to spot. The penalty is the same as for any other deliberately concealed violation, disqualification.

kevinweiho wrote:

kaban56 wrote:Do you own one of these? What is your opinion of the trigger?

No, I do not have this pistol, but would like to hear from someone who has handled this particular gun. It seems that it may give Morini and Steyr a run for their money...

I had a look at one during the Australian National Titles last weekend.
WHile it feels nice and the trigger is awesome, I had concerns about the loading method.

Fortunately for me (unfortunately for the guy using one next to me), these concerns proved to be a real problem. If you put the pellet in upside down, the only solution is to fire the pellet... no other way of clearing it!

I admit you get a malfunction shot in Air, but only one to my understanding!

and yes, it does not take a safety flag and will create problems with ROs who dont understand the firearms

Cheers

Brad

brakarzac wrote:

kevinweiho wrote:

kaban56 wrote:Do you own one of these? What is your opinion of the trigger?

No, I do not have this pistol, but would like to hear from someone who has handled this particular gun. It seems that it may give Morini and Steyr a run for their money...

I had a look at one during the Australian National Titles last weekend.
WHile it feels nice and the trigger is awesome, I had concerns about the loading method.

Fortunately for me (unfortunately for the guy using one next to me), these concerns proved to be a real problem. If you put the pellet in upside down, the only solution is to fire the pellet... no other way of clearing it!

I admit you get a malfunction shot in Air, but only one to my understanding!

and yes, it does not take a safety flag and will create problems with ROs who dont understand the firearms

Cheers

Brad

Actually, it is pretty easy to get the pellet out if you "drop it in" the wrong way. Even if you close the bridge and somehow realize that the pellet is in the wrong way, all you have to do is to open the bridge, which destroys the pellet, and take it out using a needle or something similar.

As far as the safety flags are concerned, this pistol is designed in a way that it is impossible to have a pellet in the barrel while the loading bridge is open. Therefore, the use of a safety flag is a redundancy. According to Stefano of matchguns, this particular model of air pistol is an exception to rule 6.2.2.2. It might create some extra discussions with ROs, but should result in a positive resolution. I know the words "might" and "should" are unacceptable in this context.

Matchguns did a great job at designing a pistol that solves the "problems" ISSF is trying to solve by the use of safety flags (and I am not referring to selling ISSF-labeled safety flags)

kaban56 wrote:...As far as the safety flags are concerned, this pistol is designed in a way that it is impossible to have a pellet in the barrel while the loading bridge is open. Therefore, the use of a safety flag is a redundancy. ...

I can think of at least one way to have a pellet in the barrel when the gate is open.

kaban56 wrote:...According to Stefano of matchguns, this particular model of air pistol is an exception to rule 6.2.2.2. It might create some extra discussions with ROs, but should result in a positive resolution. I know the words "might" and "should" are unacceptable in this context...

Perhaps Matchguns should approach the ISSF Technical Committee for an official 'exception' ruling that could be published.

Spencer wrote:

kaban56 wrote:...As far as the safety flags are concerned, this pistol is designed in a way that it is impossible to have a pellet in the barrel while the loading bridge is open. Therefore, the use of a safety flag is a redundancy. ...

I can think of at least one way to have a pellet in the barrel when the gate is open.

Could you give more details on this? The only way I can see this happening is when you actually take a shot and the pistol malfunctions leaves the pellet somewhere in the middle of the barrel.

I agree with your second statement 100%. It would be nice to have an official printed exception.

kaban56 wrote:...Could you give more details on this? The only way I can see this happening is when you actually take a shot and the pistol malfunctions leaves the pellet somewhere in the middle of the barrel...

yep!

Dear Shooters,
in attachment I send the letter Matchguns received from the ISSF Technical Committee.
The MGH1 is in the list.
The recommendation is to put the pistol on the table with the loading lever in open position.

kalz wrote:Dear Shooters,
in attachment I send the letter Matchguns received from the ISSF Technical Committee.
The MGH1 is in the list.
The recommendation is to put the pistol on the table with the loading lever in open position.

That letter says absolutely nothing about safety flags and there is certainly no recommendation in it.

It does not provide any exemption from the rules.

Since some months ago we realize the MGH1 Mechanical.
Same technology but equipped with only the mechanical trigger.

In attachment a picture.