TargetTalk

I have just purchased a used matchguns MG2 (standard) and am wondering what serial numbers we are up to ... and possibly how old it might be.

(still waiting for licensing paperwork so I can take posession - maybe three weeks)

I understand there is some contention with the matchguns and I do NOT want to stir that up here but my research reveals some positives... and ... I just want one!

I notice these are more popular in Spain (Jorge Llamas London 2012) although our Australian competitor in the London olympics; David Chapman, shoots the MG2RF as well.

Mine is (edit correction:#22xx) ... any factory updates I should be checking for?

Ammo can be another issue I understand.

I have been advised to try SK, LAPUA and Eley.
I tend towards Lapua as Jorge Llamas shoots that pretty well and it must be reliable for him.
I know ammo can be very subjective but I did recently witness a club member with a Hammerli SP20 that would NOT fire Winchester T22. A very skilled clubmember swore blind it must be the gun as T22 always works but it would shoot everything else they threw at it and the T22 would fail to eject nearly every shot. They fiddled and poked and cleaned and lubed etc but to no practical avail. perhaps a Bad batch I say...

still, I have read in these hallowed posts that some MG2 owners shoot CCI standard just fine!

Comments from reasonably happy MG2 owners past and present preferred as I have read all the negative stuff I need (thankyou).
Particularly anyone who knows how to contact Senor Llamas or David Chapman (PM me?) as I have questions for them too.

I got my MG2 from new in late 2008 and it has the serial #30xx. So I guess yours will be from 2006, 2007 or early 2008. Your serial number makes the pistol from a time where you could get a cheap upgrade at the factory since a lot of them did not work very well. However, some of them did so yours might be OK. I don't know what the upgrades were though.

Regarding ammo, I would not use Lapua just because Llames does. Use whatever works at a bill you want to pay. I only use European ammo in mine but CCI standard also works flawlessly.

I have found that Winchester T-22 does work well if the bullet is on the case straight (not always true), CCI Green Tag, CCI Standard, Lapua, Eley Tenex, Aquila Match and PMC Target all have worked well so far. I have the MG2RF version with a mechanical trigger and have sent it back to the factory for warranty work. Since I have received it back from Europe is has worked flawlessly. I will not shoot Remington Match since I have had big problems with that ammunition leading up my barrel on any gun that I have tried to use it with. I really do like the way it shoots and it has been proven to be very accurate.

Beevo,

My MG2 has a serial number about 60 or 70 numbers higher than yours. I had no problems in the standard configuration, but I did upgrade to RF version. I have the mechanical trigger. I use SK Pistol Match because it is good and was cheap.

After the first 500 rounds, I have had very few malfunctions. This is the most reliable semi-auto pistol I own. The only hand guns I own that are more reliable, are my revolvers.

Very early serial numbers below 2000 did have a reputation for malfunctions. This was fixed as I understand, but some people who post here just cannot let their opinions be. They keep bringing up their misadventure stories as fact for all times, which I find completely different from my experiences.

Just use decent ammunition for practice and save the good stuff for shooting for record. Clean your MG2 with a q-tip every 500 rounds or so and put a little oil on the sliding surfaces. I do take my MG2 apart once a year for a good cleaning.

Have fun with the MG2. Rapid fire is amazing in either standard or RF version.

I love this pistol, but it is most unreliable pistol i have ever seen. My friend have practically same problems. Last time in my country nationals two shooters shot malfunction series in one disipline, my friend and I. In rapid fire I had three malfunctions, one in sighting shots and two in second half. It ruined my score totally. All these problems with SK pistol match. Best working ammo has been Sellier&Bellot, I don't remember malfunctions with it.

Saying all that I believe it can work flawlessly. There is one thing that causes problems, cartridge base leaves sometimes so high that hammer hits it.

Allshooting wrote:I love this pistol, but it is most unreliable pistol i have ever seen. My friend have practically same problems. Last time in my country nationals two shooters shot malfunction series in one disipline, my friend and I. In rapid fire I had three malfunctions, one in sighting shots and two in second half. It ruined my score totally. All these problems with SK pistol match. Best working ammo has been Sellier&Bellot, I don't remember malfunctions with it.

Saying all that I believe it can work flawlessly. There is one thing that causes problems, cartridge base leaves sometimes so high that hammer hits it.

Sellier&Belliot? I havent heard of here in Australia but will check it out.

Thanks all for the positive input, including some bad experiences.

I will grab a few boxes of various ammo and give it a workout once it gets here and report how I go.

The MG2 certainly is innovative and there has been some development which I need to take into account.

I believe that pistol was owned by a member of our Club until recently...is the grip left handed?

deadeyedick wrote:I believe that pistol was owned by a member of our Club until recently...is the grip left handed?

Sorry - I got the serial wrong - #22xx right handed

I'm very happy with my MG2. I have the RF kit on it now. Shoots really well without any hangups. Use either Lapua Pistol King or CCI SV.
Would love to hear comments from MG4 users and their experiences.

jbshooter wrote:I'm very happy with my MG2. I have the RF kit on it now. Shoots really well without any hangups. Use either Lapua Pistol King or CCI SV.
Would love to hear comments from MG4 users and their experiences.

Yes MG4 seems to have a good following...

so jb... I am thinking the RF kit is a good upgrade. What improvement did you find and are there any disadvantages for other ISSF disciplines?



Shooting only standard at the moment but will have to get to rapidfire soon.

(still a noob)
It is just the match day that works best for me happens to be Standard...

If you don't mind me asking, but how much do these go for? Used and new (if possible)?
Thank you,

MG2 Rapid fire kit does make a difference but makes the gun very nose heavy, I expect similar to pardini and others etc. In terms of lightness and balance I would have to recommend Walther SSP over MG2.

the rf weight can be ordered in alu. so mg can still be light if you want. the steel rf weight is about 300 gr and it makes the pistol more front heavy but not by much. its all about preferences but i find mg2 is quite adjustable.

Here the weights of all the possibilities:
Standard steel: 217,00
Standard alu: 60,00
Rapid steel: 300,00
Rapid alu: 144,00

kaban56 wrote:If you don't mind me asking, but how much do these go for? Used and new (if possible)?
Thank you,

MG2. ? $Australian $1600 used ...$2500 new... More for electronic trigger.

Rf version a bit more...

Rf conversion kit? Not sure...$600?

I don't know how it's done but it would be good to see a slow motion video of the gun with full RF kit during firing showing everything - extraction, ejection, reloading and feeding mechanism, recoil weight movement, slide bounce etc. Even projectile exiting muzzle.

Hi Beevo,

I have an MG2 S/N 137x purchased new in April 2007. Another club member already had one, and I liked the available adjustments. Since then, the first guy sold his, and two others bought an MG2. One quickly traded it in for a Walther SSK, because it constantly misfired. Two of us are still using ours.

One year and 4 days later, the Bullet Insertion Level (#2060) broke, 4 days past warranty. I bought the replacement part, which was slightly different, but not the newer design (which I understand is thicker and requires replacing the slide cover and pivot pin to match). It has not broken since. Two of the other owners had theirs break the same part.

More recently, I had the main spring break, and the firing pin became peened over on both ends. I got replacement parts direct from Italy for reasonable prices.

The gun has worked reliably since.

As for ammunition, I mostly use CCI Standard Velocity, and have had no issues with it.

I tried Lapua Standard Plus, but it gave bullet feed problems. Quite frequently when first chambering a round, two bullets would pop up in the cartridge carrier! I believe this was due in part to the extremely slippery lube plus the very rounded nose on this ammo. Another contributing factor may have been an accumulation of dirt under the cartridge carrier, causing it to not fully seat all the way down. Soaking the frame in solvent and blowing out with compressed air seemed to help, but I decided to stay with CCI ammo after all. I am far below the skill level that justifies higher-priced ammunition!

Overall, I like the MG2 (as does the other person I know who still shoots one). Ours seem to have "stabilized" after replacing the two or three parts that seemed vulnerable on the earlier copies.

One thing I don't like is the large number of press-fit pins and tiny springs and detent balls that are used in the construction. These make disassembly beyond the basic level very difficult.

But my scores went up about 20 points when I got used to the gun (compared to my ancient Browning Medalist), mainly I think due to the ergonomic grip, reduced recoil kick-up, and confidence.

I think you will enjoy it, and if yours doesn't already have updated parts, you should be able to get them if they break.

Cheers
Tim Lahey
Ontario, Canada

It's a pity Match Guns doesn't have a repair center in the United States. They could sell guns if there was good factory support available.

Well, subsequent to my original post I now have the MG2 and have shot my first match with it (25m standard yesterday).
I did not have a chance to get any practice in or even test it first.
Since it had been sitting idle for some time and looked and felt a bit sticky I gave it a careful and thorough dissasemble and clean and then manually cycled the action to feed some shells through a few days beforehand. All seemed fine so I took a risk and fronted up for a friendly standard match.
First sighting shot I took a breath and gently squeezed...bang..it fired!
A quick look to see all had ejected OK and then a second shot...phew!
A peek through the spotting scope showed I was low but in the rings, adjust and fire, look again - better! black! All the last three in the black. walked down to check and patch and WHAT??? NO BLACK?? where had they gone? I had scoped in on the target next door! LOL at least I had shot at my own target.
I was relieved to see still a reasonable group for me, but low and left. A tweak on the sights a few clicks and I was back in action.
The gun performed flawlessly and I ran some CCI, SK and ELEY through it. (brave in a match I know but I am only D grade) Much better grouping than I usually get plus a few wild ones where I snatched at it. Nothing off the rings at all, which is unusual for me. Plus I need trigger adjustment and some more grip adjustment which I will cover in another post topic or two (advice needed).

Tomorrow we have a social comp where we shoot 50m, 25m STD, RF (8 sec) and RF duelling ... 20 shots each discipline and all with only one gun. I think it will be a lot of fun.

Back to the OP topic.. I suspect the gun has had upgrades as there are tooling marks (in the blue anodised finish) on all of the pivot pins making it look like the parts have been replaced. I dont know what the original bits look like so cannot say for sure but the gun made me feel very confident in its action.

I had also bought some Wincheser T22 (Australian) to try but the ammo seems a bit dry (not much lube at all) and I have a box of MAGTECH (Brazil) which do not inspire much confidence in the way the bullets are packed top and tail in the box... who knows? one for a Sunday test session I think.

Thanks to all for your input.

Well. I know Jorge Llames in person. He was Rapid Fire Junior World Champion in 1998. I remember him shooting a Pardini Schumann in the times of cal. 22 short. He uses Mutch Guns since...a long time ago , even when the pistol had problems. In 2010 he won the Rapid Fire European Championship with MG2: 586 -13X and 200,7 in the final. He also uses a MG4. You can see many videos in You Tube, just writing his name. Almost all of them filmed by me (ClubDeTiroNalon). I can give you his email, but only in a special case. Some photos I took recently:

WOW! thanks Julio! these are priceless.

Great pictures.

I have been creating a playlist of youtube videos and studying Jorge's routine.
Definitely a fan.

Hmmm - custom slide?!?!?!?

My MG2 has still not missed a beat and my scores get better every match. My handicap is taking a beating ... I broke by 49 today in sport pistol 25m.

I love this pistol.

Put a few rounds of some cheap magtech through but stopped when I noticed the spent casings were bulging near the hammer strike! Nasty.
A fellow shooter was happy to take the rest of the box for his revolver!