I just got my issue and I was browsing. I have been away from the youth side of air but that may be changing. My perspective formed from working with 888 and 853s. Back in the day, the CO2 Crosmans were not a good option.
BUT! I see today on page 12 and 23 that everyone is holding a Crosman Challenger PCP. First, we all know this is not an equipment game. But, it seems from my tiny sample that change is afoot and there is a new low cost solution for youth.
I searched for a bit. I did not see anything discussing this development. I am working on a winter program and would appreciate it if someone could bring me up to speed. I was inclined to start with the refurbed 853s from CMP and if something takes hold....we'll go from there.
Thanks!
Update:
Ok, I see on Pilkguns this post. Have all the serious shooters switched?
Challenger PCP with sights
Crosman is proud to introduce to the world the latest and greatest in competition airguns; the all new Challenger PCP. This Sporter Class air rifle was recently reviewed by the National Three-Position Air Rifle Council’s committee and was approved as legal for use in Sporter Class air rifle competition.
The Challenger PCP kept the adjustable stock and ambidextrous bolt handle from the wildly popular Challenger 2000, but now includes a patented integral locking mechanism. Additionally, the completely re-designed feature set includes a two-stage, match grade, adjustable trigger and a Lothar Walther barrel for unsurpassed accuracy. The gun comes equipped with the ability to operate on either CO2 or compressed air, using Crosman’s highly successful PCP platform.
Combine all of this with a visible pressure gauge and user friendly loading port, and the Challenger PCP becomes a gun that all competition shooters, young and old, can be proficient with in any shooting event. Only from Crosman, the world leader in airgun innovation since 1923.
Observation from Spring/Summer 2012 On The Mark
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
Opinions here:
Stay away from the 753/853/953 variants, especially with small kids. Hard for them to charge and will be nearly impossible in prone. Can be done, but by older kids and then they have to get all out of position.
The CH2009s (the newer challengers) are fine rifles and are VERY accurate. My ONLY issue with them is that in a 3x20 match, charging with air, if your kids shoot sighters in all positions (as they should), they will need to recharge the gun before kneeling ... creates a crowd around the airtank in the middle of the match ... not a great thing (again in my opinion). It is also heavy for a small shooter hand has a pretty long LOP.
My program shoots a lot of 888/887s and the drawback there is that in very hot temps you can run into trouble with the pressure in the CO2 cylinders getting so high the hammer cannot drive the gas valve reliably. In normal room temps and below I think these are the best rifles out there to get thru a whole match.
T200's are very nice and cheaper than the CH2009, every bit as accurate as the Daisy's & Crosmans..
The reason you see a lot of CH2009s on the JROTC teams is that is what they are issued now.
(Cheaper is great & Free is excellent)
Stay away from the 753/853/953 variants, especially with small kids. Hard for them to charge and will be nearly impossible in prone. Can be done, but by older kids and then they have to get all out of position.
The CH2009s (the newer challengers) are fine rifles and are VERY accurate. My ONLY issue with them is that in a 3x20 match, charging with air, if your kids shoot sighters in all positions (as they should), they will need to recharge the gun before kneeling ... creates a crowd around the airtank in the middle of the match ... not a great thing (again in my opinion). It is also heavy for a small shooter hand has a pretty long LOP.
My program shoots a lot of 888/887s and the drawback there is that in very hot temps you can run into trouble with the pressure in the CO2 cylinders getting so high the hammer cannot drive the gas valve reliably. In normal room temps and below I think these are the best rifles out there to get thru a whole match.
T200's are very nice and cheaper than the CH2009, every bit as accurate as the Daisy's & Crosmans..
The reason you see a lot of CH2009s on the JROTC teams is that is what they are issued now.
(Cheaper is great & Free is excellent)
My experience level is far less than Mr Martin, but I will throw in my 2 cents anyway.
I don't have any experience with the T200's, so I cannot comment on them.
Our 4-H club has used 887/888's for years. This year my daughter and some other of our kids switched to the Crossman Challenger. There is simply no way I would willingly go back to the Avanti. The Challenger is superior in every way in my opinion.
Our kids shoot 3X10 matches so I have yet to experience the need to recharge in the middle of a match yet. I do agree that is a noteworthy problem. Time consuming and could mess with the shooters mental game.
Rick
I don't have any experience with the T200's, so I cannot comment on them.
Our 4-H club has used 887/888's for years. This year my daughter and some other of our kids switched to the Crossman Challenger. There is simply no way I would willingly go back to the Avanti. The Challenger is superior in every way in my opinion.
Our kids shoot 3X10 matches so I have yet to experience the need to recharge in the middle of a match yet. I do agree that is a noteworthy problem. Time consuming and could mess with the shooters mental game.
Rick
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Chip @ Crosman
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:27 pm
- Contact:
Crosman comments
Hello I’m Mark DeBoard the Shooting Services Manager for Crosman and I wanted to response to some of your concerns about the Crosman Challenger air rifles. We get a lot of great feedback from coaches across the country that are using the Challengers for 3P Sporter Class shooting. Here are some bullet points from their feedback:
· The three position stock makes it easier to go from one shooter to the next
· Happy about using compressed air and not CO2 and the fact a hand pump is available
· Sights are of high quality and are adjustable, unlike competitors'
· Ambidextrous bolt system for right and left handed shooters
· Well balanced at just over 7 pounds
· Great two stage trigger, can be adjusted to 1.5 pounds
· Very accurate
· Appreciate the ability to adjust the hammer energy to get the best performance with the pellet of choice
· Like the fact that the reservoir is permanently attached to the air rifle
· Scores improve the first time they use them
There is some room for improvement and here are suggestions we have received:
· Stock not designed for smaller hands
· No easy way to add weight but yet some feel that it is too heavy for younger shooters
· It’s only a 2,000 psi and not a 3,000 psi (it would be very difficult to use the hand pump if it was 3,000 psi)
· Butt plate not the correct shape and slippery
Both the Challengers and T200s can be purchased for the same retail price of $525.00 each. Crosman understands that not every club has the financial support needed to purchase a higher quality air rifle and therefore we have established programs to help with those needs. We can help with fundraisers, have a club discount program and pay for shipping on most orders. To find out more about our programs contact Beth McClung at bmcclung[AT]crosman.com.
Another great source for financing is using the NRA Grant Program. Every state has a Friends of the NRA committee that raises funds for shooting programs within their state for clubs just like yours. You will have to apply and be approved but funds are available.
The Challengers should produce 100-120 shots per fill. I have been to several National Matches and I do see the shooters filling between disciplines not necessarily from a “need to” standpoint but more often from a psychological standpoint. The shooters just have more confidence when the gauge reads 2,000 psi.
We work with all the JROTC branches and while some of the teams were issued the Challengers there are a lot more that went out and purchased them on their own. Flowing Wells HS was one of the first schools to purchase the Challengers back in 2009 and have been a top 10 JROTC ever since. In fact they just won the Championship for all branches this year.
I realize that there are less expensive alternatives and refurbished product may be all that your club can manage. But let me say this, these Challengers have been on the streets since 2009 and we have sold thousands of them but we don’t have any “returns”. That should say enough about the product!
· The three position stock makes it easier to go from one shooter to the next
· Happy about using compressed air and not CO2 and the fact a hand pump is available
· Sights are of high quality and are adjustable, unlike competitors'
· Ambidextrous bolt system for right and left handed shooters
· Well balanced at just over 7 pounds
· Great two stage trigger, can be adjusted to 1.5 pounds
· Very accurate
· Appreciate the ability to adjust the hammer energy to get the best performance with the pellet of choice
· Like the fact that the reservoir is permanently attached to the air rifle
· Scores improve the first time they use them
There is some room for improvement and here are suggestions we have received:
· Stock not designed for smaller hands
· No easy way to add weight but yet some feel that it is too heavy for younger shooters
· It’s only a 2,000 psi and not a 3,000 psi (it would be very difficult to use the hand pump if it was 3,000 psi)
· Butt plate not the correct shape and slippery
Both the Challengers and T200s can be purchased for the same retail price of $525.00 each. Crosman understands that not every club has the financial support needed to purchase a higher quality air rifle and therefore we have established programs to help with those needs. We can help with fundraisers, have a club discount program and pay for shipping on most orders. To find out more about our programs contact Beth McClung at bmcclung[AT]crosman.com.
Another great source for financing is using the NRA Grant Program. Every state has a Friends of the NRA committee that raises funds for shooting programs within their state for clubs just like yours. You will have to apply and be approved but funds are available.
The Challengers should produce 100-120 shots per fill. I have been to several National Matches and I do see the shooters filling between disciplines not necessarily from a “need to” standpoint but more often from a psychological standpoint. The shooters just have more confidence when the gauge reads 2,000 psi.
We work with all the JROTC branches and while some of the teams were issued the Challengers there are a lot more that went out and purchased them on their own. Flowing Wells HS was one of the first schools to purchase the Challengers back in 2009 and have been a top 10 JROTC ever since. In fact they just won the Championship for all branches this year.
I realize that there are less expensive alternatives and refurbished product may be all that your club can manage. But let me say this, these Challengers have been on the streets since 2009 and we have sold thousands of them but we don’t have any “returns”. That should say enough about the product!
What else do I need?
I am about to purchase a Crosman Challenger for a 4H program and I want to make sure I get everything I need for it at the same time. I plan on running it on co2 since I have a 10 lb tank I use for home brewing. Which adaptor do I need to fill it with? We will be shooting this indoor at about 10m. Which pellets and what weights seem to be working well?
Cheers, Philip
Cheers, Philip