TargetTalk

I've enjoyed watching the Olympic shooting events, but I have a question that I can seem to find the answer too.

Why are there air rifles and regular rifles?

Thank you in advance for answering my very simple & dumb question.

Why do they run a 100 meters, 200 meters 400 meters,800 meters 1600 meters and I think 3200 meters? Or swimming same question, Why do the highjump and the longjump? Do we want to get into rowing? Does that answer your question ?

Distance ! The AR will not be able to shoot 50 meters, So they shoot the 22s. If they had ARs that could shot 50 meters(with small pellets)
im sure thats all they would shoot. I know they have larger caliber ARs that can shoot that distance but I dont think the countries that dont like guns really want them to be used. Do you understand what im trying to say.? Im sure more answers will be clearer. PS. someday there will be no pellets or bullets.Think what the possibilities (design) of
those guns could be.

I think the simple answer is they are just two different disciplines. Air rifle is an indoor, 10 metre standing event. Smallbore is outdoors at 50 metres, and uses different shooting positions.

Rob.

david alaways wrote:Distance ! The AR will not be able to shoot 50 meters, So they shoot the 22s. If they had ARs that could shot 50 meters(with small pellets)
im sure thats all they would shoot. I know they have larger caliber ARs that can shoot that distance but I dont think the countries that dont like guns really want them to be used. Do you understand what im trying to say.? Im sure more answers will be clearer. PS. someday there will be no pellets or bullets.Think what the possibilities (design) of
those guns could be.

Perhaps the 7ftlb Air Rifle would not be able to shoot the 50m range (I'm not sure as I've never tried it). However a sub 12 ftlb (English legal limit) certainly can (I've done it regularly with my .177 air rifles). An unrestricted air rifle (Firearms Certificate needed for this in the UK) would have no trouble in doing so.

In the UK there are outdoor events called Field Target and Hunter Field Target which use sub 12 ftlb air rifles (.177 and .22) to shoot out to 50 metres.

For high Precision shooting at 50m as in the 10m Olympic competitions, the ranges would have to be indoors though to prevent the wind deflection. Unless of course the ten ring was widened and the wind was a factor in the shooting as it is in long distance small-bore/full-bore events.

I don't think that you have been given an adequate answer, because there isn't one. I'm not an expert as some on here, but I think your question is only answerable when you consider who decides what events will take place. Choosing what events will be in competition and which ones will not is pretty much arbitrary. Why aren't there any centerfire pistol events? Why aren't there any muzzle loading events?

Anonymous wrote:I've enjoyed watching the Olympic shooting events, but I have a question that I can seem to find the answer too.

Why are there air rifles and regular rifles?

Thank you in advance for answering my very simple & dumb question.

Winter. In the winter, shooting outdoors can be difficult. Air guns can be shot indoors without a specially built and ventilated range. Where it's warm. And 10 meters is a small gym - you can find that amount of space fairly easily. I've got a clear 10m shot in my house (it was a requirement).

That's how it started, as a winter practice tool. But it was like foil fencing...the practice tool became a sport in its own right.

As to which sports are and are not shot, that's an issue. The Olympic Games pose a daunting logistical challenge, the IOC is continually working to keep it to a (barely) managable level. EVERYTHING that is not a high-visibility Spandex Sport is on the chopping block.

That being said, shooting has the big advantage of being a world sport. Most sports are really between athletes from three or four countries, with a few others thrown in for show. Shooting has more competitors, from more different countries, than any other sport.

6ft-lb will run out to 50m, the europeans shoot some FT like that.

Shooting an air rifle is quite different than shooting a 22 or a centerfire. The pellet is shot at 570 fps or at least in that range while a 22 is just under the speed of sound at 1140fps or thereabouts. The time that the pellet is traversing the barrel is a lot longer requiring more follow through. Shooting outdoors is real tricky with a pellet as the wind can wreak havoc with it's trajectory. I don't know whether this answers your question, but 22lr is closer to a centerfire rifle than it is to a pellet gun. Hope this helps.
Chris

Levergun59 wrote:Shooting an air rifle is quite different than shooting a 22 or a centerfire. The pellet is shot at 570 fps or at least in that range while a 22 is just under the speed of sound at 1140fps or thereabouts. The time that the pellet is traversing the barrel is a lot longer requiring more follow through. Shooting outdoors is real tricky with a pellet as the wind can wreak havoc with it's trajectory. I don't know whether this answers your question, but 22lr is closer to a centerfire rifle than it is to a pellet gun. Hope this helps.
Chris

Hi Chris, The FT air rifles that are being referred to are not 570 fps rifles.
Airguns used in FT matches are in different classes; in the US they can be spring
power plants or PCP power plants. The spring guns shoot pellets at 800- 950 FPS.
The PCP guns are usually set up for 800-900 fps( the velocity is adjustable).
The PCP guns are the most accurate, and most can shoot ctc 10 shot groups of
.30"-.40" at 50 yards. These accuracy tests were conducted in Larry Durhams
Concrete underground 50 yard tunnel. You're right about everything you mentioned
except for the FT veleocity characteristics. There is an International FT class trhat does
use the 580fps ten meter match platforms, but they're set up for sitting positions
mostly.

For me, I've shot FT Springer class for several years, I've used two very different
types, one is my decades old FWB 124D, a 12 ftlb gun, it shoots 825fps;
and next is a AA Pro-Sport which is a 16ftlb(950fps) air rifle that has shot a .60"ctc
ten shot group at 50 yards. Most USA FT spring gun shooters are using
AA TX200s.

Tony

Tony,
I was referring to the original question about the guns used in the Olympics and why they are so different. So the speeds I mentioned were pertaining to Feinwerkbau, Anschutz and Walther pellet guns in ISSF competitions. Sorry to confuse you.
Chris

someone mentioned logistics, and this is a major concern. If they didn't change it without telling me, a 10,000 athletes is top.
To remain in the game, the Olympics finals were created. Shooting is lousy for TV. No rhythm, slow and you never know who is head without a screen.
Besides the fact that it has become "politically incorrect", the lousiest american inventions of history...

Thats what I was looking for...lol...that makes perfect since...my brain can rest now. :)

Mike M. wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've enjoyed watching the Olympic shooting events, but I have a question that I can seem to find the answer too.

Why are there air rifles and regular rifles?

Thank you in advance for answering my very simple & dumb question.

Winter. In the winter, shooting outdoors can be difficult. Air guns can be shot indoors without a specially built and ventilated range. Where it's warm. And 10 meters is a small gym - you can find that amount of space fairly easily. I've got a clear 10m shot in my house (it was a requirement).

That's how it started, as a winter practice tool. But it was like foil fencing...the practice tool became a sport in its own right.

As to which sports are and are not shot, that's an issue. The Olympic Games pose a daunting logistical challenge, the IOC is continually working to keep it to a (barely) managable level. EVERYTHING that is not a high-visibility Spandex Sport is on the chopping block.

That being said, shooting has the big advantage of being a world sport. Most sports are really between athletes from three or four countries, with a few others thrown in for show. Shooting has more competitors, from more different countries, than any other sport.

Levergun59 wrote:Tony,
I was referring to the original question about the guns used in the Olympics and why they are so different. So the speeds I mentioned were pertaining to Feinwerkbau, Anschutz and Walther pellet guns in ISSF competitions. Sorry to confuse you.
Chris

Thanks Chris, as for me, I admit, I am easily confused.

Tony

I think they are shooting the 50m stuff indoors these days at least I would swear they were indoors in China 4 years ago.

As for the 10m rifle at 50 meters it is not out of the question, we shoot silhouette with 10m rifles all the time out to 45 yards. When you get into the high end higher powered airguns they will run pretty close with most .22LRs in accuracy even at 50m.

The big killer is wind on the pellet. It took me over 4 years to achieve Master in Target Air Rifle Silhouette and now I usually shoot 30+ scores on average unless the conditions are just hellish. Trying to shoot a rifle designed for 33' inside shooting and stretching it out to 135' outside is a challenge to say the least. Reading conditions is not optional.

Basically if you can shoot a 10m rifle well it will transfer to any other rifle in most cases. Learning the conditions is another story all together.


Bo

Mike M. wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've enjoyed watching the Olympic shooting events, but I have a question that I can seem to find the answer too.

Why are there air rifles and regular rifles?

Thank you in advance for answering my very simple & dumb question.

Winter. In the winter, shooting outdoors can be difficult. Air guns can be shot indoors without a specially built and ventilated range. Where it's warm. And 10 meters is a small gym - you can find that amount of space fairly easily. I've got a clear 10m shot in my house (it was a requirement).

That's how it started, as a winter practice tool. But it was like foil fencing...the practice tool became a sport in its own right.

That... doesn't seem to gel with the history of air rifle shooting in the UK (bell shooting) and post-war Germany with its imposed rules on firearms ownership...

Bowman26 wrote:I think they are shooting the 50m stuff indoors these days at least I would swear they were indoors in China 4 years ago.

As for the 10m rifle at 50 meters it is not of the question we shoot silhouette with 10m rifles all the time out to 45 yards. When you get into the high end higher powered airguns they will run pretty close with most .22LRs in accuracy even at 50m.

The big killer is wind on the pellet. It took me over 4 years to achieve Master in Target Air Rifle Silhouette and now I usually shoot 30+ scores on average unless the conditions are just hellish. Trying to shoot a rifle designed for 33' inside shooting and stretching it out to 135' outside is a challenge to say the least. Reading conditions is not optional.

Basically if you can shoot a 10m rifle well it will transfer to any other rifle in most cases. Learning the conditions is another story all together.


Bo

Finals are shot indoors the qualifications are shot outdoors, of course to accommodate the media.

Don't know how far you'd have to go back to when the finals were outside too. Beijing and Sydney were both inside I think, Atlanta not sure.
http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/D ... eutral.pdf

Richard H wrote:...Beijing and Sydney were both inside I think, Atlanta not sure...

Sydney - Finals Hall is 'indoor' only as far as 10m: the rest for 25m and 50m is outdoor. 25m and 50m Qualification ranges are 'roofed' out to about 10m.
Atlanta - Finals and Qualification 25m and 50m outdoor

6.3.6.3.1 300 m ranges should have at least 290 m open to the sky.
6.3.6.3.2 50 m ranges should have at least 45 m open to the sky.
6.3.6.3.3 25 m ranges should have at least 12.5 m open to the sky.
6.3.6.3.3.1 50 m and 25 m ranges should, whenever possible, be outdoor ranges but may be exceptionally indoor or closed ranges if required by legal or climatic conditions.
6.3.6.3.4 10 m ranges must be installed indoors.