TargetTalk

So I've got a bit of a predicament. I want a bullseye .45, but I want to be able to switch between iron sights and a red dot somewhat easily. I've got very sharp eyes, so only shooting with a red dot seems like a waste. So that pretty much leads me to the fact that I need a frame mount. I was thinking about getting a Les Baer, but not the wadgun since that doesn't have sights. Maybe a Concept I since it has a smooth front strap. (textured front straps make my fingers hurt) But then I have to make the choice of the mount. The thought of drilling holes in a brand new $2k gun is enough to give me nightmares. So I was thinking about an Aimtech mount. When I asked someone at League the response was "Grip mounts suck, you don't want one of those" So that brings up the question, do grip mounts really suck?

AmishEskimoNinja wrote: So that brings up the question, do grip mounts really suck?

Yes

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:So I've got a bit of a predicament. I want a bullseye .45, but I want to be able to switch between iron sights and a red dot somewhat easily.

Look at the Rock River Bullseye Rib, at http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm? ... ory_id=519

The rock river sight scope rib would be a good choice, if les baer and RR use the same bolt pattern, or you could by a les baer ball gun, then if you want to shoot with a dot add a aimtech or other bolt on grip, scope mount. They work very well i had a friend that could shoot 2600 and above with his.

I had the Aimtech mount for a while on one of my guns. It doesn't suck that bad. It held zero, but it would occasionally interfere with ejection and cause an FTE. I switched to a slide-mount and am much happier.

You could get a slide mount and they get a iron sight rib that has the same pattern as the slide mount. I am thinking of doing this because I want to build a long side that has iron sights but be able to put a red dot on it later. The sight rib I am going to use is an aristocrat. Kind of an expensive sight but worth it from what I have heard.

The main reason the people think grip mounts suck is because it will add a goofy dimension to your grip. Some people can shoot good with them and some can't. It is all personal preference.

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:...I want to be able to switch between iron sights and a red dot somewhat easily. ...I need a frame mount.

Not a BE competitor here (so I'm not expressing any opinions; they'd be worthless in this context, anyway) but I am curious about frame mounts.

I've got a couple of pistols with frame-mounted Weaver rails and am somewhat familiar with the concept in contexts other than bullseye shooting.

I could have sworn the Pardini GT series came drilled and tapped for a frame-mount rail that they sold but, going back over their manuals for the last 10 years, my memory turned out to be wrong. The EAA Witness Elite Limited in .45 is a nice pistol, comes pre-drilled for a Weaver rail they sell that mounts to the frame with 8 screws, and overall makes a nice piece. (I have one and really like it.) However, it rides so low that you must remove the rear sight thus making your goal of being able to switch back and forth to iron sights unobtainable. It's also not a 1911 so that immediately disqualifies it from being considered by lots of folks.

Along the same lines, I assume you wouldn't want to use something like this:



:-)

However, 1911 frames and complete pistols with Picatinny rails forward of the trigger guard are available. So, in the bullseye world, does anyone use frame mounts that attached to the under-barrel dust cover rail?

Examples:







Just curious. TIA for any insight.

BenEnglishTX wrote:

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:
I could have sworn the Pardini GT series came drilled and tapped for a frame-mount rail that they sold but, going back over their manuals for the last 10 years, my memory turned out to be wrong. Just curious. TIA for any insight.

They did; I have one along with a frame mount.

GOVTMODEL wrote:They did; I have one along with a frame mount.

Interesting. I wanted to buy one a while back but none of the pistols shown here: http://pardiniguns.com/pistols/ipsc-and-defense-pistols have the mounting holes and they are not shown in the documentation/manuals here: http://pardiniguns.com/tech-docs . I was looking for a good quality off-hand .45 with a factory-made (non-custom) frame-mounted Weaver rail a while back and bought my Witness simply because it was the only thing I could find as a designed-together combo. (For the curious - it's for IHMSA shooting in the "Production" class where no gunsmithing or alterations are allowed beyond replacement grips and new sights. Everything must screw together without alterations to be legal under the rules.)

I would have bought the Pardini if it had been available. Perhaps it was a short-lived variation.

And, to get back to the OP's question, the Pardini might have been the answer to his needs if the frame/rail combo allowed for disassembly for cleaning without removing the irons.

GOVTMODEL wrote: Look at the Rock River Bullseye Rib, at http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm? ... ory_id=519

Thats really interesting. That might be a good solution. My bullseye .22 is a Buckmark Contour because it has sights and a rail simultaneously. I didn't think anything like that rail existed.

See I'm not in bullseye because I want to be a bullseye champion. I'm in bullseye because I want to be a better shooter. And part of shooting is learning to use iron sights...

If you really want to play around between iron sights and a dot, the cheapest way IMHO is the Aimtech grip replacement mount. It DOES work and holds zero under factory loads. It does stick up higher than a good frame mount and it can cause FTE's.

Another option is to play around with two different top-ends for the gun, one with a slide-mount dot and one with target iron sights. More costly, but should give you the best possible setups for each style of shooting and you'll get to keep your lower which means your trigger will stay the same.

Does anyone have a Les Baer with a slide mount that can give me the measurements between holes? The gal at LB wouldn't tell me what they were. I want to check that the Rock river pattern is the same.

Another option - I had a gunsmith modify a Clark Weaver style rail by chopping the back part off and milling a slot for the front sight. The rail fits forward of the rear sight and keeps the dot as low a bore center as possible. The rail is removable (three screws I think) and then the adjustable Bo-Mar style iron sights are usable.

The RRA sight rib is similar to the old Bo-Mar rib in that it sits slightly higher than a more conventional slide mounted Weaver rail. The grip mounted rails position the dot particularly high and make me feel like I'm looking down on the gun.

My recollection on the frame mount rails is that the holes are unevenly spaced. I'm not sure if this is an optical illusion or done on purpose. Nevertheless, it seemed goofy looking to me. Otherwise, slide mount vs frame mount is like a Ford vs Chevy question with lots of opinions available on this site by searching.

Clintw wrote:Another option - I had a gunsmith modify a Clark Weaver style rail by chopping the back part off and milling a slot for the front sight. The rail fits forward of the rear sight and keeps the dot as low a bore center as possible. The rail is removable (three screws I think) and then the adjustable Bo-Mar style iron sights are usable.

I'd be interested to see a picture.

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:Does anyone have a Les Baer with a slide mount that can give me the measurements between holes? The gal at LB wouldn't tell me what they were. I want to check that the Rock river pattern is the same.

No, but three of the four holes on the Rock River rib line up with the holes on my BoMar rib.

call rock river and ask, seems once they told me they were the same.

So one more question on a slightly different vein. Does anyone else make an off-the-shelf bullseye gun besides Les Baer?

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:So one more question on a slightly different vein. Does anyone else make an off-the-shelf bullseye gun besides Les Baer?

Everyone I know who bought a Kimber was satisfied. A trigger adjustment was all that was needed. Look at the Custom Target II, http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custo ... -target-ii

GOVTMODEL wrote:

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:So one more question on a slightly different vein. Does anyone else make an off-the-shelf bullseye gun besides Les Baer?

Everyone I know who bought a Kimber was satisfied. A trigger adjustment was all that was needed. Look at the Custom Target II, http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custo ... -target-ii

Do you have to adjust the feedramp to get it to shoot wadcutters?

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:

GOVTMODEL wrote:

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:So one more question on a slightly different vein. Does anyone else make an off-the-shelf bullseye gun besides Les Baer?

Everyone I know who bought a Kimber was satisfied. A trigger adjustment was all that was needed. Look at the Custom Target II, http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custo ... -target-ii

Do you have to adjust the feedramp to get it to shoot wadcutters?

No!

AmishEskimoNinja wrote:So one more question on a slightly different vein. Does anyone else make an off-the-shelf bullseye gun besides Les Baer?

If you want a competition ready 1911 at a entry level price, the sprinfield armory range officer is the gun, comes with adjustable sights, very tight frame to slide fit, throated to feed wadcutters and will shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yards, some say theirs will do 2 inches at 50. gun retails for 795.00 but its hard to find sometimes due to there growing popularity and great reviews.