TargetTalk

Is it just me who thinks it is poor ethics to take advantage of the generosity of the Pilkingtons' free forum to advertise items for sale on another site, which may be considered a competitor, where the seller pays a fee?

Ben

I'm with you and personally nuke those types of posts on the forums where I'm an admin and have the control. I know lots of other forums who have the same belief. You want to sell, post a price.

But it's easier to have fewer limitations and lots of people don't share my personal ideas of what's proper etiquette. If Scott and company haven't objected in the past (this isn't new), then they must be okay with it.

If I had a company and ran a forum like this, I would not allow any links to competitor which has the same products as I had. I.e. a link to a FWB seller is ok if I don't stock them but Walther not ok if I sell them myself.
Since I am paying for this site with both time and money I would also have problems with too positive posts about competitors or too negative posts about my business. This could sometimes be tricky to uphold but there are ways to deal with it.
A few forums I visit have similar rules like these ones but they are also bigger and have the staffing to enforce them. So I can definitely see why they don't exist here. Maybe it's time to have someone moderate? there are usually interested people that will do it for free

How do you define "too positive posts about my competitors" and "too negative posts about my business" ?

I've been a member of this site for many years and have visited with Scott at his home and business. My take on his attitude is that he isn't about to stifle free and open discussions about shooting or equipment in order to make a buck. The best way we can keep him in business is to buy whatever we can from him. And while a pat on the back won't put jam on his table, it sure feels good. Thank you Scott and crew.

I don't think Pilkguns has anything to worry about. Anyone who knocks his stock or service will be seen as a crank (or shill for another seller). Enough people have dealt with them to know the truth and someone will speak up. I think that the fact that Scott does not engage in commercial censorship speaks well for his integrity and confidence in his business and the forum community.

I also don't see how it's rude to link to used gun sales on GunBroker, even if GB makes a buck on the deal. It is not directly competitive with Pilkguns, especially since this forum provides a place to make such sales and Pilkguns wouldn't get a cut anyway. On the other hand, someone who is advertising here to retail air guns is out of line. But even that can be self-regulating - there was a spammer a while ago using TT to flog his own new stock and he got told off by forum users. I doubt he made any sales - at least he has't been back.

Roger

orionshooter wrote:How do you define "too positive posts about my competitors" and "too negative posts about my business" ?

I can't define it better than that at the moment. It is highly subjective and hard for me to put in words since I don't have the combination of company and forum and therefore haven't thought about where to draw the line.


My thought is this, if I am running a discussion forum and are open with who is hosting it (time & money again) I would like to specify a few rules. Either I do something similar as here, meaning an open environment with looser rules with the hope that it will positively affect my business. I think this approach is a nice one if it works, it creates an open atmosphere and might attract more people to join the discussion. The problem I see is when (if) the forum grows and you have a lot more visitors, not everyone will behave in the expected manner. Stricter rules (like links and my subjective "positive" note above) and more moderators will hopefully help here.
The other approach is the host being anonymous so as to not inflict with my company. This means I can't put down the same rules as before, the environment will be more open again but, dependent on size, I will have to add other types of rules. Behavioral, what types of links are ok, where to host pictures etc.

But back to topic again. I also think it is wrong to post links to sites which make provision off sellers. But since this has happened before without actions against, it has to be ok here. Or another explanation is that it has been missed (it's not easy maintaining a site and a business simultaneous). Anyway, it is still a nice forum to visit, so good work!

EJ wrote:Or another explanation is that it has been missed . . .

Doubt that very much Scott misses much of anything.

EJ wrote:Since I am paying for this site with both time and money I would also have problems with too positive posts about competitors or too negative posts about my business. This could sometimes be tricky to uphold but there are ways to deal with it.

What would be the point in that? You would quickly gain a reputation for being an extremely biased forum where discussions of any other supplier (positive or negative) was prohibited, which is not going to make for a busy board. People will jump ship elsewhere - this is the internet, there are plenty of boards out there where you can speak freely and voice your honest opinion!

Better customer service would see any negative posts immediately hit up with a "Hi, I'm sorry to hear that, what can I do to help?", and posts about competitors "Yeah, they do a fine service, but did you know that I can offer that cheaper/faster/..."
Positive marketing is infinitely preferable to negatively trying to censor anything that might suggest you're not the best.

In terms of sales sections, then yes you have your own rules, or just stipulate no sales section/posts at all, but if you're putting yourself out there on the internet then you're inviting comparison and discussion of suppliers and have to live with that (and hold yourself to a standard where the comparisons are always favourable for yourself)

In terms of this specific forum, so long as anonymous posts are allowed, you will always have spambots and random sales posts going up. The only way to attempt to limit it would be to disable Anonymous posting and enforce users being logged in before they can post or reply.

I don't much care for links from sites like this to places like Gunbroker. I would think that the poster would first post on a site like this with a price before putting the item(s) up for sale at an auction site.

As far as positive and negative posts about businesses is concerned; in my experience Pilkguns has nothing to worry about. They have top notch customer service.

Hemmers wrote:...discussions of any other supplier (positive or negative) was prohibited...

Where did I say this? I added "too" for this exact reason
If i owned a store and someone walks in and starts talking to customers about how much better their business is and how bad my store is, I would not allow that either.

But yes, you do have a valid point. I just don't think it is that easy. A forums popularity is also based on the knowledge inside it, friendliness of posters, if visitors like it and tells their friends, how easy it is to find through search engines etc.
Like I said, I visit at least one forum which have these rules and it is a bigger one and has been so ever since it started 12 y ago.

Hemmers wrote:...plenty of boards out there where you can speak freely and voice your honest opinion!

I doubt you will find such a forum where you can speak "freely" (except for places you don't want to visit). All boards I've been to have had rules specifying how they want conversation to run. Some have sales sections, some have the no-talking-about-competitor rule, some doesn't seem to have anyone in charge of the board and so on. Yes you might find a place where you can talk about competitors business but then they might have some other rule that you don't like. What I'm saying is this, there are no perfect forum that fits everyone.

But, again, I don't think a lot stricter rules will benefit this forum right now. It is already a small one with a slow posting/updating pace and adding a few rules will probably just slow it down further. Before any changes like this, an evaluation of the current status is necessary. Weighing pros and cons before taking any actions.


Btw, spambots are smart nowadays. They will work even where a log in is required, so just changing to a log in forum won't fix that problem.

I doubt if it's all worth the trouble.

I would like to see this non-forum related stuff dumped, though.