TargetTalk

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can lend some help. I've run into an issue where I'll be holding and squeezing and squeezing and nothing happens. I've read the article on pilkguns about chicken finger, but in addition to that, do people have any tips/practice exercises to make the trigger squeeze subconscious and smooth? Should I focus on the start of the trigger squeeze and then just ignore it?

Thanks.

Basically it requires lots of practice focusing on trigger control, both live and dryfire practice.

How much dedicated training do you do with the trigger? Where all of your focus is on manipulating the trigger smoothly. How about where you're doing the same, but watching sights (not on a target, heck I don't even lift the pistol for this training drill but sight down my arm at the floor)?

It's one of those fundamentals that needs to be trained. Training, in the case of the trigger, involves lots of dry-firing to get a feel for the trigger. Then training sight picture and accepting your personal hold/wobble with a final dash of self confidence to have the shot break without conscious thought. You'll get "there" faster by training the pieces individually, before ever putting a shot down range as you Practice putting all the aspects together.

Yeah, confidence is definitely an issue for me. I recently changed from shooting sub-six to six o clock and while it has made my groups tighter(mostly from giving me a fixed reference frame on the target) I also find myself searching more for the "perfect" alignment of sights/bull.

I'll definitely try the exercise you suggested and your explanation makes sense. I guess it's a matter of working hard enough at it consciously that it becomes ingrained in the subconscious.

In my personal experience and over 17 years of competitive ISSF performance, I was not able to notify the occurrence of “subconscious trigger squeeze” below the level of 570AP or over 550 FP.
If someone is talking about “subconscious trigger squeeze” and not able to execute 565 in AP at a constant basis, this is total BULL. (Sorry for my French).
Before you will start digging in this topic, please become familiar with fundamentals. You probably have 3 to 4 issues besides “subconscious trigger squeeze”.
After achieving the basic level of 565-570 AP, you can engage in the mental part of the game. Otherwise, it is a great waste of your time and other recourses.

"specific motor task into memory through repetition"

"become automatic and improve with practice"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory

Just two of my cents and observation for last 25 years in Olympic Style Target Shooting.
P.S.
"572 AP in Two and a Half Months"

http://midwestacademyconsulting.wordpre ... following/

Russ wrote:In my personal experience and over 17 years of competitive ISSF performance, I was not able to notify the occurrence of “subconscious trigger squeeze” below the level of 570AP or over 550 FP.
If someone is talking about “subconscious trigger squeeze” and not able to execute 565 in AP at a constant basis, this is total BULL. (Sorry for my French).
Before you will start digging in this topic, please become familiar with fundamentals. You probably have 3 to 4 issues besides “subconscious trigger squeeze”.

Ask him what time it is and Russ will tell you how to build a watch.

Trust trust trust your hold and do not interrupt the continuous movement of the trigger. When you don't like your hold, put the gun down and start your shot process over. As soon as you start having any thoughts about the trigger, put the gun down. Your entire MENTAL focus should be on maintaining sight alignment - your entire VISUAL focus should be on the front sight. That's alot to think about - allowing your mind to wander to the trigger will take away from your ability to concentrate on the things that really matter.

During a recent match I heard a master bullseye shooter whom I predict will be our national champion one day say the following to another shooter on the line: "I don't aim anymore, I just hold." One intereptation of what he said was that he is not thinking about the trigger, only his hold.

By the way, it's 4:23 MST ;-)

Good shooting to you

When someone is asking about the simple question about trigger squeeze, I have to explain what's wrong in his development at the current level and why that person cannot produce a consistent score level of 565. Afterwards, I have to give him more detailed information about the same subject, but with a different level of attention.

From my point of view, if someone has competitive aspirations, he must look for knowledge not only in the public area, where he most likely will catch a few more mistakes from other hobby shooters. He must look for clinics or specialty classes to improve his skills and knowledge. Eighty percent of forums on Target Talk are related to technical aspects of Olympic style pistol shooting. It's important. I don't want to diminish the value of the technical part, but at the same level, I will take all technical issues to professionals. If I have a problem with my pistols, I will send them to Scott Pilkington. I will save time which I need for practice and headache from emotional distractions. This is why all national teams have gunsmiths.

"... Following to another shooter on the line: "I don't aim anymore, I just hold." One intereptation of what he said was that he is not thinking about the trigger, only his hold."

Actually, this is a very true statement and I like it. The problem is probably to make this statement will not produce any value for someone who is asking about trigger squeeze performance. There is a huge gap in development and knowledge between someone who made this statement and someone who is questioning about trigger pull.

Russ wrote:When someone is asking about the simple question about trigger squeeze, I have to explain what's wrong in his development at the current level and why that person cannot produce a consistent score level of 565.

What fascinates me Russ is how you actually believe you can accomplish this analysis from just reading a simple posting like - "How can I make my trigger squeeze more subconscious."

It is simple. I’m just confident in what I’m doing, and I had a very low failure rate so far.
How about you? ;)

Well you got me there Russ. After watching the endless parade of 565+ shooters we have all seen marching out of your seminars - you got me!

This going to be another pissing match.

You are entirely right Richard and I apologize. The initial poster brought up a very interesting subject which doesnt need to be trampled over or pissed on. My apologies to all for doing exactly that.

I agree with Richard and I do not have any intention to diverge the attention from the subject of trigger squeeze. By the way, if you (orionshooter) have any questions on this matter, feel free to PM me. I'm kind of sensitive against such statements when someone is "fascinated" about simple 565 AP performance. About my seminar, it's completely a voluntary issue. I do not advertise here any longer. I have my own blog and it works very well so far.

vHoff wrote:Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can lend some help. I've run into an issue where I'll be holding and squeezing and squeezing and nothing happens. I've read the article on pilkguns about chicken finger, but in addition to that, do people have any tips/practice exercises to make the trigger squeeze subconscious and smooth? Should I focus on the start of the trigger squeeze and then just ignore it?

Thanks.

Try a heavier trigger in practice...It will help you get the feel of what's going on. Don't be frightened to play around with the trigger setting, some longtime
shooters are still fiddling with settings...Never happy!!!

orionshooter wrote:

Russ wrote:When someone is asking about the simple question about trigger squeeze, I have to explain what's wrong in his development at the current level and why that person cannot produce a consistent score level of 565.

What fascinates me Russ is how you actually believe you can accomplish this analysis from just reading a simple posting like - "How can I make my trigger squeeze more subconscious."

What appalls me is that Russ's immediate reaction is to tell someone he's never met & knows little about "what's wrong in his development". Russ may be a superb shooter, and have some great ideas about technique to teach, but if that is how he's going to start out trying to "help" somebody, I personally don't think much of his coaching style.

This is another out of topic issue. I do not do traditional coaching; I do consulting. If you are an expert in evaluation, coaching, or in the consulting service, please share your credentials. Otherwise, please continue helping other shooters to solve their problem if you have the potential to be helpful, besides being emotionally supportive. Coaches should be concerned about issues such as the following:

Target shooting does not have too many health benefits from my point of view. If an athlete spent more than necessary time on the shooting range, he is facing lead pollution, air pollution from the smoke, and strain on the back which can cause a few professionally related health issues. This traditional coach should be aware of and provide as much safety in a protective environment to avoid the infection of those issues.

I do not deal with those issues, but this is an important part for anyone (coaches) who would like to be helpful for their athletes. I am working in a specific area, to raise the performance of motivated athletes in a short period of time. Unconventional time takes unconventional measures. Please stay on the topic if you have anything to say about trigger squeeze.

Working the hustle again Russ? How about your credantials please? Ever shot in world competition? Or just that one friendly club match you seem to wear on your sleeve. I would not be too quick to dictate to folks how to do something that you never succeeded at yourself.Out.

Dear Greg, as far as I remember, we lost contact with your participation on this forum when you were shy to describe how you became successful in this field and who was behind your back for many years (TargetTalk was probably not the cause of your success).

In 2007, I took only two competitions in North America, the Canadian Airgun Grand Prix (Gold & Silver) and the USAS National (AP: 5th, FP: 7th, & SP: 11th). If you will name someone who took ONLY two competitions at this level and made the finals in both, I will definitely respect this person and pay attention to what he is talking about.
I took those competitions just to prove my point in order" to preach what I teach", no more and no less.

After the CAGP in March, I will be more specific about the trigger squeeze issue on my blog. If you have anything to say about this topic, feel free. Thank you.

And the pissing match continues, surprise, surprise... In case anyone's too lazy or forgetful to look at the original poster's question:

vHoff wrote:I'm wondering if anyone can lend some help. I've run into an issue where I'll be holding and squeezing and squeezing and nothing happens. I've read the article on pilkguns about chicken finger, but in addition to that, do people have any tips/practice exercises to make the trigger squeeze subconscious and smooth? Should I focus on the start of the trigger squeeze and then just ignore it?

Come on guys, it's a legitimate question, and specifically to Russ; it's a question which, if you have some decent knowledge and a bit of ability to apply concentrated effort, I'm sure you could contribute to directly. Or... you could mention that after the Gran Prix you'll post something specific to this question on your blog, yet again advertising yourself and your services, while carefully, yet again, claiming NOT to advertise here. I have nothing against promoting your services but please sir, let's not be too disingenuous about it. Self-promotion is obvious enough to everyone reading this.

And you other guys engaging in Russ-bashing; could we focus on the question and possible solutions? It's a problem with most shooters confront to some degree, right? So how about using the thread to get more good information out there for all to use.