TargetTalk

Hello All.

I'm planning on buying myself a retirement gift in the form of a Anschutz 1907 for my club's prone matches. I'm looking at two NIB, almost identical rifles, the difference being one has a blue chrome moly barrel and the other is stainless. My question is whether the difference matters? What are the differences in the performance and durability of the different materials? A Google search took me to some postings opining that stainless wore faster. I don't mind the difference in cost between the two, just want the best long-term experience with my new rifle.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Bob,

In the grand scheme of things moly is supposed to be just a little tougher than stainless. Is there enough difference that the average shooter is going to notice. NO!

Unless you are part of some team where you get to shoot every day, so long as you take care of the barrel the chances that you could wear either of them out is slim or none.

Far more important is if you could test each barrel with a few different brands and lots of ammo to see which one shoots better.

I will take a plain old steel barrel that shoots well over a stainless or moly barrel that shoots just OK any day.

'Dude

Thank You. I probably misspoke, I am no metallurgist. One barrel is stainless, the other is blue steel, made of whatever material Anschutz uses to make their barrels. Unfortunately shooting both before buying is not an option. So, all things being equal, there is no advantage to stainless?

Thanks.

Bob

OK, that is a different discussion.

The aftermarket stainless barrel is likely the more accurate barrel from the box stock Anschutz barrel. This is not an absolute but very likely.

The Anschutz barrel would not be a chrome moly barrel but just some flavor of German ordinance steel.

'Dude

The stainless gun also shipped from Anschutz with the barrel it's wearing. Both guns are factory NIB.

Thanks again.

Bob

That is interesting: I have never heard of a factory Anschutz with other than a blue barrel but that does not mean it does not exist.

I had assumed since it was stainless the barrel was aftermarket. Are you certain the seller has their information straight? If it were a stainless barrel from a custom barrel maker then I would support the notion that the stainless was better.

From what you say, I have no idea the source or care that went into the stainless barrel.

Now, if these are both new in box then they should have the test pattern with them in the paperwork. Take a look at those for some idea which is better. Now, if I were buying an Anschutz that was "NIB" and the little manual and especially the test pattern was missing I would run the other way.

Perhaps you could just flip a coin.

'Dude

I have seen stainless Anschutz barrels before, in fact Champions Choice has a couple of 2013's with stainless barrels on their website now. Both of the guns I'm looking at were purchased new from CC a few years ago by a friend who suffered a health setback soon after ordering and never even got to sight them in. I ended up having to drive him to the receiving FFL to do the paperwork and the rifles have been sitting in his safe since. The test targets are so close it's hard to choose which is the better of the two.

Thanks again.

Bob

justadude wrote:That is interesting: I have never heard of a factory Anschutz with other than a blue barrel but that does not mean it does not exist.

The guy I bought my first rifle from upgraded to a 2013 with a factory stainless barrel. For a "selected" barrel, the test group was pretty mediocre as I remember.

K.

Save yourself some money and buy the cheaper of the two anschutz barrels. In my experience neither anschutz barrel will out shoot an American aftermarket barrel like Shilen, Benchmark or Lilja. I have had 2 anschutz 1907s both of which I have replaced the factory barrels due to poor performance.

There are world cup level shooters that shoot factory anschutz barrels, however, they have also had the opportunity to test many barreled actions to find a good one. Then they take those barreled actions to Eley or Lapua and match ammo to it.

I have found that both of my aftermarket barrels are capable of shooting a larger variety of ammo better than the factory barrels ever did.

Brian

I have a 2005 model Anschutz 1907 with factory stainless barrel. It is plenty accurate but only like high dollar ammo. That doesn't mean anything; some barrels are finicky regardless of manufacturer and composition.

I would get sainless, just for the rust factor.
matt

WesternGrizzly wrote:I would get sainless, just for the rust factor.
matt

????? if you clean your guns properly they don't 'rust' ... stainless will rust just as quick as std barrel steel if not looked after.


Either will shoot just as well with correctly selected ammo

the balance of the stainless gun maybe slighty different

You probably wont be able to put enough rounds down it to to notice a loss of accuracy most top level shooters put cira 250k + down their barrels before changing them.

Its more likely poor cleaning practices ruin good barrels than bullets.

handle both firearms dry fire them if you can make your mind up that way.

Hello Bob
The first new 2013 i brought had a Anschutz stainless barrel fitted. This barrel shot very well but was more finicky with ammo and required a lot more cleaning. It came with a very good test group but never quite lived up to that. I have since replaced it with a Anschutz blue selected barrel and action that came with a good test group that after shooting in shoots very good with a lot of different ammo's. I know the stainless was not a selected barrel so not quite a fair comparison, but i would not buy another Anschutz stainless barrel. Rusting is not a problem as you are not going to buy a new Anschutz rifle and not look after it!.........
Regards Adrian...

So I guess that some of this thread shows how long it has been since I bought a new barreled action. Last time I bought a barreled action, it was blued, period, end of story.

I will concur with the general notion that my aftermarket stainless barrels are less picky about what ammo they need in order to shoot well.

Likewise, I will also concur with the statement that the performance of many recent Anschutz barrels is just "OK" but nothing stellar. Which gets back to why I have not bought any new barreled actions in a long time. (Yeah, someone is probably going to flame me for that but what the heck.)

'Dude

Back to your original question, the material that the barrel is made out of is not the major determining factor in whether it will shoot well or not.

The barrel contour, length, chamber and bore diameter are the factors which make the big difference.

From gauging and slugging many anschutz barrels I can tell you that the bore is not ideal. Ideally you want a bore that is tapered towards the muzzle the entire length of the barrel. It isn't tapered a lot, but enough that you can feel a change in resistance throughout the entire length. I just put a Shilen on one of my rifles and the bore gauged 0.2182" at the chamber end to 0.2168" at the muzzle. Its a pretty tight bore but its the best shooting barrel I have had yet.

Anschutz cuts corners when manufacturing their barrels. The last roughly 2" is the only tight spot in the barrel. This is where you see the barrels flare out. I have slugged anschutz barrels where the barrel gets tight with half the bullet sticking out the end.

I generally advise my new shooters to buy the cheaper anschutz barrel and plan on spending the money they saved later on down the road on a better barrel when they reach the level where they need one.

Brian

remmy223 wrote:

WesternGrizzly wrote:I would get sainless, just for the rust factor.
matt

????? if you clean your guns properly they don't 'rust' ... stainless will rust just as quick as std barrel steel if not looked after

I need every little bit of help I can get. the oils in my hands are acidic or something, and anything I touch that can rust, probably will. So I just want a little bit less chance of rust forming after I handle a rifle.
Matt

Out of curiosity, at what point does a barrel better than a stock factory Anschutz become a good investment, in various people's eyes? I know you can say it might be the difference between a 570 and a 575 in an ISSF prone match, but so what? So would being a very slightly better shot. At what point, scorewise, does the gear start to become an issue? Let's say indoors, to get away from the variables of the shooter's ability to read wind and light. At 590, is someone at a point where they should question whether the barrel's depriving them of a few points? How about at 595? What sort of benefit have people noticed changing from a factory barrel to an aftermarket custom job in terms of scores? To be honest I'm a bit skeptical that the vast, vast majority of even quite competent prone shooters are being held back by their gear more than they're being held up by not having good enough ammo for their rifle (And if they can't get enough to test or good enough for that, the chances of getting a whole different set of results with a different barrel are a lottery) or just not training enough. It's nice to make the best of our time with what we have, but, well, I've seen someone who I don't recall ever breaking 570 in an ISSF prone match putting a Lilja barrel on his 1813, when I'd seen him shoot the occasional lovely group with the old barrel, in the hope of teasing out a better performance. Shockingly enough, that didn't work. A good coach, even a couple of sessions, and thinking carefully about maximising training time, good note-keeping and the like would typically prove far more useful for most I reckon. I remain curious though, what sort of changes are people finding, and at what level? I know the above comes across as a bit of a rant, and I know there are benefits to be had from the top-end kit, but I just think there are probably a lot fewer riflemen who can really enjoy those benefits than those who think they can!

In reply to DaveIRL.How true is that!! I can only speak for myself ofcourse but knowing that I have top gear is a really big player in my thinking before I even start.Im no member of the 590+ club in fact no where near it sadly.I have had very good scores in training with Eley Club ammo but would never use it in competition as the fear of something going wrong wold be too much of a gamble.I think that for alot of folk having top quality gear in anything is part of the mental process towards heading in the right direction.Is it a crime to want an after market barrell,a mtm jacket etc?I think not.Does it improve scores??...now there lies the big question.Maybe/maybe not.As Dave has suggested perhaps the money would be better spent on some serious coaching and learning to do things correctly and consistantly ALL THE TIME,not just once a week.
After all said and dont the best prone shooter in the world doesnt have any flash harry gear from any of the Youtube videos Ive watched.But I bet he goes through squillions of rounds of ammo in training each year.

I'm probably not being fair, to be honest. I wear made to measure kit, I've got about the best of everything from my assessment, I put my rifle together carefully from good parts and picked things to suit me. After that however, I don't want to be thinking about kit, and obviously that's why I bought the absolute best I could afford. However, barrels are a bit of a step too far for me, in that it's a hunt that can't end. I shoot up around the high 580s mark to about 590 indoors, so I know I'm dropping points all on my own, to say nothing of the looser tens I'm calling as slightly sloppy shots. Now, maybe with a bunch of testing I could get a barrel that saved me a point or two once in a while, but when I know I'm not shooting a centre ten every time on my own, I remain the decisive limiting factor, not the gear.

I think it's very important to have a good quality barrel. I was practicing shooting about 10 years with an anschutz 1813 olympic 84 model which one is made for olympic games 1984 in limited quantity. For years I was assured that is the best rifle money can buy, but still my scores were 575 to 585 in prone 50 m matches and I was told that I have to work harder to improve my scores.
Few years ago I was able to send that rifle to Eley factory and do some batch testing. The result was pretty much bad. Best 40 shot group, outer diameter, was 21,8mm and others groups were much worse. It isn't good enough to shoot 595+.
Then I decided to buy new rifle and I bought Walther kk 300 alutec with factory selected barrel.
My very first treining session with new rifle was 595 with non selected ammo and since then my treining scores are between 594 and 598.
I didn't change anything in my gear or technic, just change my rifle and improve results big time.
I haven't had opportunity to do ammo batch testing for new rifle yet, but I do hope to do it this year and maybe improve scores some more.
Excuse my poor english,I hope that you can understand me.