TargetTalk

Just to give you an idea what we need to go through to get a pistol license in certain states of Australia

In this country everytime someone gets shot by a gun(pistol) which when this happen its by an unlicensed shooter the laws get tighter.

I was a shooter 25 years ago then you had to be a club member for 3 months once that time lapsed you went to the local police station and applied for a license whcih was virtually issued on the same day and I think it cost $20

20 order years later

Must be a financial member of national body ($80) and pistol club ($200-$500) for at least 6 months, must have police clearance certificate ($44), must undergo firearm awareness test must submit several pages of dumentation with firearm application ($160) need to wait 28 days as a cooling off period before proceeding further the you need to submit a statutotory declaration and photo's of secured firearm and ammunition storage(must be sperate to firearm) that meets police guidelines, wait another 28 days before license is approved and issued then need to have photograph taken which meets licenseing requiements ($10) then this is submitted to police which will be attached to your license card.

After the inital license is issued you need to wait a further 6 months before you can apply for a second pistol and the process for applying for a second firearm can take 30-60 days

Now as far as I'm concerned and I'm sure a lot of others will agree all this does is deter the honest person from applying for a pistol license and taking up shooting as a hobby.

It takes about as long and the same cost as a model aeroplane license, its about as tedious and much cheaper than a full motorcycle license, much quicker than a car license, much much easier and faaar cheaper than a flying license.

It also deters jerks, so I'm not too bothered really. TBH if it keeps out the ferals who just want a 9mm for their glovebox then great.

As far as buying or possessing a handgun in PA, it is no big deal just buy it, fill out a 4473 form and a state police form; the dealer calls in the background check and you get your handgun.

I can not speak for the entire USA or even my own state of PA, except that PA is a "Shall Issue" state. Each county in PA has their own procedures. I live in a very rural, sparsely populated county and we just go to the Sherriff and fill out a form, that includes 2 references from within the county, pay $25, have our picture taken, have an instant background check completed, and receive your 5 year concealed carry permit right then and there.

JamesH wrote:It takes about as long and the same cost as a model aeroplane license, its about as tedious and much cheaper than a full motorcycle license, much quicker than a car license, much much easier and faaar cheaper than a flying license.

It also deters jerks, so I'm not too bothered really. TBH if it keeps out the ferals who just want a 9mm for their glovebox then great.

<Sarcasm on> Yeah- I'm sure you have absolutely no jerks who shoot in Australia. Are you kidding? If anything you probably have more jerks among your shooting ranks because the only one who can shoot in your country is someone who has a lot of extra money to throw around to a bunch of bureaucrats. And, as a feral with a 9mm in his car, please explain what is so horrible about that?

Ted Bell

tedbell wrote:And, as a feral with a 9mm in his car, please explain what is so horrible about that?

<sarcasm>That it's not a .45?</sarcasm>

Here in California, gun ownership seems fairly straight-forward: go to store, pick your piece, fill out the federal 4473 and a state form, pay your money, wait ten days, go back and claim your firearm. There are a host of more complicated regulations regarding pistols, semi-automatic rifles, and magazine capacity, among other things, but for a target rifle the biggest headache is the ten day wait, and the twitching that develops as you wait to shoot your new gun. <rant>That, and the idiots on Gunbroker and GunsAmerica who refuse to ship to California, despite it being perfectly legal for a private party to ship a firearm to an in-state dealer. Even shipping dealer to dealer only requires a quick, free-of-charge, online registration. </rant>

And while there are plenty of people here who bemoan the limitations the state government has placed on firearms, I understand that several of the other United States have it much worse than we do. Anyone from New jersey want to weigh in?

In the U.S. all firearms dealers are licensed by the federal gov't. The federal gov't has it's laws and then the individual 50 states can pass their own. There are communities who also have their own firearms ordinances. In Indiana, to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer, I must be 21 years of age and be able to produce a current photo identification which includes my current residence. I must fill out a questionnaire (it is a felony to provide false answers). After the questionnaire is completed, the firearms dealer calls the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) for a criminal check. The FBI usually gives a go-ahead over the phone, but has up to three days to reply as to whether or not the dealer can proceed with the transaction. If the sale is approved, in Indiana, I can pay the dealer and take the handgun home. In Indiana, to take the handgun off my property, I must have a handgun license. The state MUST issue a handgun license, unless there are grounds not to issue. The handgun license procedure takes from 6 weeks to several months depending on the backlog at the Indiana State Police. The Indiana Handgun License fees are $40.00 for a four year license and $125.00 for a lifetime license. The license can be revoked at any time for cause.

New Mexico:
1) Go to store & choose
2) Fill out 4473 (no state form)
3) They phone in instant check
4) Pay
5) go to range
6) shoot

(Steps 1-4 can take as long as 15-20 minutes) ... Step 6 takes quite a bit longer

<rant>That, and the idiots on Gunbroker and GunsAmerica who refuse to ship to California, despite it being perfectly legal for a private party to ship a firearm to an in-state dealer. Even shipping dealer to dealer only requires a quick, free-of-charge, online registration. </rant>

Try not to take it personally. It's only a form of protest to a welfare/nanny/1984 type Big Bro state that is CA. Most are hoping that the peons (and that is what your legislators think of you) will rise up and toss them out of office. (Note that I don't sell on those two sites)

I agree with SbrMike, however, in Columbia County, PA, the Sheriff made my references call into their office. If they didn't call in, I would have been denied. That was one Sheriff ago, so it may have changed. Renewal is just another photo and pay the fee for the protection permit. There is nothing state or local required to do to buy a handgun.

Freepistol: There is a statewide State Police form for buying a handgun and has been since the start of Brady.

mtncrw: You are kind of forgetting about your DOJ "approved list" aren't you?

I know that many FFL dealers in PA refuse to provide anything more than the Fed requires and refuse to sell to CA; that simple free registration process is more than they will tolerate. Your and your state's fault not ours.

I live in Tennessee, we have it real tough.
No permit is required to own or buy a firearm.
If you want a carry permit, take a firearms class, pay state fee (i think it is $100 ) you get permit in 30 days. As of last count Tennessee has issued over 300,000 permits. Permit good for 5 years.
Do I feel more or less safe with so many armed citizens?
A lot safer than I am in New York City.

Pick out gun in store
Fill out 4473 form on up to 5 guns
Pay $10.00 state fee, for up to 5 guns.
Pay for firearm
Go to range or test in backyard (if in rural area)
Another option
Go to one of the online sites like gunowners
Find a listing you like
Meet person face to face
Make trade or pay for firearm
Go to range or test in backyard

For a broader perspective, try: http://www.amazon.com/Worldwide-Gun-Own ... B004QXMFNM

Disclaimer: I wrote the only review that (thus far) appears on Amazon.

As to the laws in my location, Texas, there's no licensing requirement to purchase and the federal requirements are the same minimums other correspondents have already provided. The concealed carry requirements are about normal and based roughly on the pioneering Florida model (that's a fascinating lesson in history and politics, but a bit off-topic here). Take a class and pass an easy written test. Take a shooting proficiency test that anyone on this forum could literally pass with their eyes closed. Send in paperwork, a photo, fingerprints, and fees. Wait. Get license.

The only reason I got my CCH over a decade ago was that it allowed me to skip the call-in NICS check when buying a gun at a retail shop. In the beginning, there were so many problems with that system that it was worthwhile to have a concealed carry license just to bypass that step. Over the last few years, most of the kinks in the NICS system have gotten ironed out. I no longer feel the need to maintain the concealment license so I let it lapse.

None of that covers my favorite way to buy guns, however. My mother loved to go out on weekends to garage sales (yard sales, boot sales, whatever they're called in your location) and pick through the antiques, old jewelry, and household castoffs you commonly find at those things. We had a standing arrangement. She could pay up to $100 for any pistol that wasn't rusted to a state of immobility and I'd reimburse her. Long guns were ok, too, at her discretion. Thus, at every garage sale she'd ask "Got any old guns you want to get rid of?"

God bless her, before she passed away my mom brought me some fun old guns. The real junk was apparent even to her (e.g., RG revolvers and Jennings autopistols) and she was smart enough to bypass that stuff. Offhand, I can remember her bringing me several old Colts, S&Ws, a number of shotguns, and even a .40 Glock.

I want to expand my answer a little. In general PA's laws are mirrors of Federal requirements with a few exceptions.

There are no face to face handgun sales permitted; they must be transferred through a dealer. There is no transfer required on transfers between immediate family members, i.e. brother to sister, father to son etc.

There is also a disqualifier for all gun purchases in PA involving misdemeanor convicitions that could have carried a one year or longer prison sentence, even if you were sentenced less. I am pretty sure this is a PA law and not Federal.

tedbell wrote:<Sarcasm on> Yeah- I'm sure you have absolutely no jerks who shoot in Australia. Are you kidding? If anything you probably have more jerks among your shooting ranks because the only one who can shoot in your country is someone who has a lot of extra money to throw around to a bunch of bureaucrats. And, as a feral with a 9mm in his car, please explain what is so horrible about that?

Ted Bell

Not really, here it divides neatly into people who want to shoot for sport and people who want guns to commit crimes with, self-defense with firearms is a non-issue.

If people can't be bothered with a few months wait and a few hundred dollars in cost then chances are they aren't going to have the perseverance for target shooting either - or they don't want a gun for target shooting at all - either way its better they don't start.

Well, in the UK it's simple:

1) Choose pistol in online catalogue
2) Remember you live in the UK, where the only people with handguns are criminals
3) Choose a different hobby

timinder wrote:...2) Remember you live in the UK, where the only people with handguns are criminals
3) Choose a different hobby

How broadly is "handgun" defined? Does it include air pistols? Blackpowder? Collectible antiques?

In Holland:
Airguns free >18yrs (for now), allthough replica's forbidden.

FA:
-minimal 1 yr membership of gunclub
- at least 18 shooting turns a yr
- no criminal record etc(is checked every yr)
- must have 'good reason', for instance a shooting discipline shot at yr gunclub. ( no discipline for that gun shot at YOUR club? can get the FA)
- licence is for éach seperate gun you get
- min 18 yrs
- max 5 FA
- no .50 etc calibers, no full auto, semi-auto rifles restricted

Here in North Carolina (east coast of the US) it's pretty balanced. If you want to buy up to 5 handguns at a time and are 21 and not judged mentally unstable, you first go to the local Sherrif and obtain a purchase permit application ($5 each gun). Once returned, they have 7 days to call you up to pick up the permit(s) or deny you. At that point, you go to your friendly FFL, fill out the BATFE Form 4473 (our federal overseers on guns and such), the FFL calls the FBI, and either then or within 3 days they respond with approval. A good friend just did this (Colt Commander .45 and a Walther P22) over the weekend while attending a local gun show.

If you attend a day-long concealed carry permit class, successfully pass the written test and a shooting test (within a man-sized target at 3, 5, and 7 yards) you then receive a certificate. This and another permit application ($80) from the Sherriff and a fingerprinting done by the City-County Bureau of Investigation ($10) and then you wait. Generally this is turned around quickly; I think mine was 4 days since I lead quite a boring life. Once you have your concealed carry permit, it's good for 3 years and is renewable by application only, no tests or classes ($75).

Most people here want a carry permit due to our strange laws. The police PREFER people to conceal guns so the public isn't presented with what could be loosely contrived as the "Wild West". if you were to wear one in a holster, don't try even grabbing the grip or you're liable to be arrested for "brandishing a firearm". Unless you keep it in a box, you are better off having the permit.

Now if I want to buy a handgun or any long gun, I only need to submit my permit and fill out a Form 4473 and no calls are made as I am fully vetted to purchase a gun.

If I want a long gun, I don't really have to provide my permit as I only need to provide my state-issued photo ID, fill out a 4473, and a call to the FBI. If I present my permit, there's no call made.

My permit is linked directly to my driver's license. If I was pulled over, the officer could pull up my license with his in-car computer and see I have my permit. When he approaches my car, I am obligated to immediately tell the officer that I have a concealed carry permit, and he (in most cases) will take the gun from you, unload it, and hold it for safekeeping until the road stop is completed.

If I want to buy a device that is classified by our federals as a Class 3 device such a suppressor, the rules are very different, and that's a different response. By the way, suppressors here are strangely treated like submachine guns and other wild stuff.

However, what will seem REALLY wild here in the states is when I have UK customers or collegues in town and they ask to go shooting after work. I'll park in the garage that morning with a half-dozen pistols, several so-called assault rifles, and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in my vehicle, and it's perfectly legal to do so. You should see their expressions! Not all of us Yanks are feral wankers, LOL.

Telecomtodd wrote:My permit is linked directly to my driver's license. If I was pulled over, the officer could pull up my license with his in-car computer and see I have my permit. When he approaches my car, I am obligated to immediately tell the officer that I have a concealed carry permit, and he (in most cases) will...

Since the original poster asked about laws, in the interest of fairness I think we should clue him in on the fact that in any U.S. state where the obligation to disclose your carry permit is written into law, the reactions of individual law enforcement officers are as varied as the officers themselves and the departments they work for.

In my experience, most just tell you to leave it where it is. There's no use risking an accident via a bunch of extra and unnecessary gunhandling. Departmental policies may require otherwise. For example, we had one jurisdiction in Texas that didn't like (politics was in play) the newly-instituted carry permits and so required their officers to relieve you of the firearm, disassemble it as far as they could without tools, seal it in an evidence bag, and return it to you as the last step at the end of the traffic stop, still disassembled.

Some officers, however, are not particularly well-trained or not constrained by reasonable departmental policy. Add in some apparently unresolved anger management issues and you can wind up being on the receiving end of a flat-out freakout, like this: http://www.ohioccw.org/201107214955/cantonpd.html

I'm not trying to start a political debate. The original poster asked about the law in our respective countries. My only point is that in some jurisdictions in the U.S., the law is that you must deal with the police on certain firearms-related issues and that sometimes those dealings can be rather stressful.

I spent much too much time reading this site and watching the video clip. It is really quite frightening. The way the cop jumped into the car and began an illegal search without a warrant and w/o even asking if the victims consented to a search could have gotten him in a lot more hot water than just being fired.

Probably the reason the cop kept refusing to allow the CCL holder to inform him of the license and his gun is so he might be able to charge the guy with a violation later.

I hope that the language and threats were just over the top interpretations of his lessons at the Academy on how to use a command voice and command presence to gain control of a situation -- rather than a real threat to pull his sidearm.

This was clearly a situation where exercising your right to carry was a lot more dangerous than leaving the weapon at home would have been.

Anyway, it's a good thing he's gone from the Canton PD.