TargetTalk

Should your cheek pressure on the stock be heavy or light.
Also should your handgrip be light or firm

You should be as relaxed as possible.

Should your cheek pressure on the stock be heavy or light.

Pressure means that your rifle will eventually move downwards, sometimes you might even lean to the right while aiming - if your a right hand shooter.

Also should your handgrip be light or firm

For me a better trigger technique requires a lighter grip.

It's better to try different positions and techniques to know what suits you best.

Hope this helps.
Jenni,

Cheek Pressure: Relaxed head position (really key to set up your cheekpiece)

Grip Strength: A subject hard to describe. A light grip is not ideal. I know that when I had a lighter grip and my hand was lower on my grip, I would tend to get a lot of flyers straight up in offhand. Fixing my grip almost eliminated this problem. The Air Rifle book from MEC says you should use 40% of your strength, not sure how I would personally gauge this. I would consider my grip to be medium firm (make sure you are not using too much pressure with your thumb). I have observed my hold in offhand decrease with a stronger grip, however this has not necessarily translated to scores. But I can certainly say that a strong grip (with your hand up high and level with the trigger) will help you in offhand. I probably use about the same strength for prone and kneeling, however I suspect that my offhand grip is stronger than those positions.

I'm a fan of fairly light for both. Too much muscle squeeze on the grip makes trigger release harder to perform plus increases the likelyhood of fliers. You have to ask what are you trying to acheive with a strong grip on the pistol grip ?

Rob.

Personally, I like to rest my head on the cheekpiece - not actively pushing down but not trying to hold my head up. This relaxes the muscles in my neck but does require an adjustable cheekpiece to get your eye right behind the peephole.

I also like a firmer hold on the Pistol Grip - if pistol shooters can operate the trigger while gripping their pistol, so can I.
It also damps out any horizontal wobble in my position, particularly in the wind. I found it impossible to shoot in blustery conditions with a light trigger hand and a bloop tube.

YMMV,
Ken.

KennyB wrote: I also like a firmer hold on the Pistol Grip - if pistol shooters can operate the trigger while gripping their pistol, so can I.
It also damps out any horizontal wobble in my position, particularly in the wind. I found it impossible to shoot in blustery conditions with a light trigger hand and a bloop tube.

YMMV,
Ken.

Pistol trigger control is a whole different ball game to rifle. The bull is 20 times larger than prone for a start. We also have no choice but to hold the gun firm, else we'll drop it. That said pistol shooters still only generally use a modest amount or grip force, even less so with free pistol.

I would suggest if you need to hold the gun firmly to steady it then your setup isn't quite right.

Rob.

I think Rob sums it up in his last sentence.

Stress free mussels make for a still gun. For me anyway.


Doug

Correction to my own post: have seen my hold increase with a stronger grip, not decrease.

Anyway, pull up some photos of shooters at world cups at issf.org. You can observe that most have their grip high (flush with top of pistol grip) and the fact that their fingers are wrapped around do not indicate a light grip (a light grip indicated by a hand further down on the stock, esp. the thumb.)

While I realize that using strength in your hand seems contradictory to the practice of mostly relaxed muscles, the fact is you are using muscle to hold your hand onto the stock. A light grip is not helpful, recoil can worsen, trigger control will affect your shot more, and your fliers in offhand may have a tendency to worsen (personal experience). I realize that his may not be true for everyone. However, I am not advising a grip that is uncomfortable to maintain pressure. If you want to think about the effects of recoil with your grip, think about how you would grip a centerfire firearm, esp. a pistol if it is easier to think about your grip when shooting a pistol.
Just some thoughts and personal experience

Firstly to keep mentioning pistol shooting when explaining rifle positions is of no help. The two are totally different, I shoot and coach both and there are lots of differences and only relatively few similarities - pistol grip holding isn't one of them.

In rifle the recoil should be coming straight back into the shoulder. The gun should move just a little bit, in a consistent manner from shot to shot. If you need to 'steer' that with the pistol grip then the setup isn't quite right. You will not be able to maintain a consistent grip pressure which will result in more poor shots. You will also find that the lighter you hold the grip the easier it is to move the trigger finger. Now you obviously need some pressure but it should be quite light such that in no way does triggering move the pistol grip or the subsequent shot fall.

The gun should also be set up so that the trigger movement is in a straight line back in line with the barrel. The force should be applied straight to minimise the risks of left or right fliers due to the trigger finger being too far around the trigger or you shooting with the tip of the finger. Lastly the movement of the trigger should be smoothly back, with the finger always on the trigger (not bouncing off and on).

Rob.

In answer to your interesting posts, which by the look of it vary quite a bit with nobody being in complete agreement as to what is the best to do.
I tend to relax my head on the cheekpiece fully but sometimes I then raise it slightly to get a better sight picture. Therefore the pressure on the stock will vary.
Yes I know that some people will say that my stock is not adjusted correctly, but I tend to do this no matter where the cheekpiece is, perhaps it's a bad habit that I need to sort out.

With my handgrip I seem to hold it moderatly firmly, as I feel that if I dont, then I am not part of the rifle and not in control of it.

GaryD wrote: Yes I know that some people will say that my stock is not adjusted correctly, but I tend to do this no matter where the cheekpiece is, perhaps it's a bad habit that I need to sort out.

I would think that most people would say this!
Of course, if you don't have an adjustable stock, then you have to work around it, but consistency is the objective; if your cheek pressure varies from shot to shot, then so will your NPA and consequent fall of shot.

GaryD wrote:In answer to your interesting posts, which by the look of it vary quite a bit with nobody being in complete agreement as to what is the best to do.

Hey, it's the internet...

GaryD wrote:I tend to relax my head on the cheekpiece fully but sometimes I then raise it slightly to get a better sight picture. Therefore the pressure on the stock will vary.

That's the beauty of a cheekpiece that's adjustable in position - rather than raise your head slightly, raise the cheekpiece slightly - I know that some will say that this is a no-no during a card but I would suggest that you try it if you can.

GaryD wrote:Yes I know that some people will say that my stock is not adjusted correctly, but I tend to do this no matter where the cheekpiece is, perhaps it's a bad habit that I need to sort out.

When I was shooting indoors last Saturday my first shot was high - OK, I was shooting 50m the week before so adjust the sights and now the cheekpiece is too high...
Stock Adjustment will vary between ranges and distances and (I believe) from day to day, card to card and sometimes shot to shot.
(How does anyone without a flipover foresight NOT adjust their cheekpiece between 50's and 100's if they can?)

GaryD wrote:With my handgrip I seem to hold it moderatly firmly, as I feel that if I dont, then I am not part of the rifle and not in control of it.

I like the term "Passive Grip" - not applying force to the rifle but resisting force that the rifle applies to your hand.

As I've said in numerous topics before...there is no one set way of doing things in rifle shooting. Some internet coach saying "do it this way. It is the only way" is just blowing smoke. In my opinion, it is better if people just say what they do and explain why.

As I'm only shooting prone now, I will give my experiences and the why. I shoot with a fairly light grip. My hand just naturally falls on the pistol grip with little need for adjustment or added tension. I do start out with a fairly heavy cheek preasure, but that is mostly just to seat the butt plate into my shoulder consistently. It doesn't feel unnatural, and I don't apply extra pressure after the intitial placement of my cheek on the stock.

When I shot kneeling I had both a light grip and cheek pressure. I found that any extra pressure from either made it extrememly difficult to get consistent tens.

My results in standing were unenspiring. In my efforts to get better at standing I did talk to a lot of great standing shooters and they almost universally said they use a firm grip. Like a good firm handshake, not a limp marshmallo handshake.

Eric U

Eric U wrote:As I've said in numerous topics before...there is no one set way of doing things in rifle shooting. Some internet coach saying "do it this way. It is the only way" is just blowing smoke. In my opinion, it is better if people just say what they do and explain why Eric U

Well I think what Eric says sums up exactly what has been expressed in these posts, and that is there is not one ideal position,
and that each person has to work out what is best for them.

since we're on topic of hand pressure, I was wondering, do you guys grip the pistol grip with the "cup of your palm" and fingers or just your fingers?

Jordan1s wrote:since we're on topic of hand pressure, I was wondering, do you guys grip the pistol grip with the "cup of your palm" and fingers or just your fingers?

I suspect that varies with the shape of your hand and the pistol grip. I would bet almost no one has modified their pistol grip to properly fit them - although some will be fortunate and they fit fine off the shelf. Mine is a poor fit and needs attacking with a dremmel, and I haven't done so yet. I'm not going to say how I grip it, partly because I can't recall - I just know that at the moment there's a pronounced 'lump' that sticks into my palm and that it shouldn't.

Rob.

I grip with my middle, ring and little finger. The rest of the hand is as relaxed as possible, that means basically that the hand is hanging on the grip by "hooking" my lower fingers on the grip. I have modified my grip to fit me but I can see (but don't understand why) that most people have not done this. Grip: FWB700 medium

If i remember correctly, isnt it against the rules to modify the pistol grip such that it fits your hand better? Or am i wrong on this?

Altering the grip is fine in Smallbore. In air rifle and standard rifle the rule states that the grip cannot be formed anatomically. It is vague and could be improved upon. Obviously you cant get it fit like a free pistol grip, but does that also mean we all must shoot with square grips? obviously not.

I use a medium firm grip on my rifle. I would say my grip is about as strong as you can grip a 21 oz full soda cup (with the lid on) and not bend the sides.
I also use a firm cheek pressure. But I don't muscle it onto the rifle, I just let my neck relax and it ends up being firm. I noticed that when I shoot scope my hold got smaller with a firm pressure.
Matt

Jordan1s wrote:If i remember correctly, isnt it against the rules to modify the pistol grip such that it fits your hand better? Or am i wrong on this?

As Matt says, that's only true for air rifle.

Rob.