TargetTalk

Google magnet. Comment, if you like. America needs to build up interest in Olympic trap and get away from that easy American-style trap that almost all ranges throw.

Apart from this site, there really is no decent internet forum devoted to the discussion of Olympic trap. As this site runs first-rate forum software, there's no reason why this site can't become the primary Olympic/bunker forum.

In my last two trap rounds, I scored 15 in Olympic and 25 in ATA. That was a confident 25, too. I felt fortunate to land the 15 in Olympic.

Olympic trap is a lot of fun, even though it's humbling. It might be the greatest challenge you'll find in shooting.

ATA Trap is too easy

ATA Trapshooting is too easy

Amateur Trapshooting Association trap is too easy

ATA Trap is way too easy

ATA Trapshooting is way too easy

Amateur Trapshooting Association trap is way too easy

ATA Trap is not hard enough

ATA Trap is not difficult enough

ATA Trap is not challenging enough

ATA Trap is not challenging enough

Olympic trap is the only real trap

Olympic trap is real trapshooting

too scared to shoot olympic trap

too chicken to shoot Olympic trap

Bunker trap is the only real trap

Bunker trap is real trapshooting

too scared to shoot Bunker trap

too chicken to shoot Bunker trap

Trench trap is the only real trap

Trench trap is real trapshooting

too scared to shoot Trench trap

too chicken to shoot Trench trap

afraid of a challenge

you're not a real trapshooter unless you shoot Olympic trap

you're not a real trapshooter unless you shoot Bunker trap

you're not a real trapshooter unless you shoot Trench trap

Americans are scared

Without casting any aspersions your rant vs. American Trap is your opinion. Knowledgeably ISSF Trap and European version have a greater degree of challenge, however I don't talk about what I don't know about---are their (hic) events more reasonable to attend and of equal expense? To me the good old Trap sites that are local are filled and running quite well. To me I like the slower version we shoot here and might try some ISSF versions, but I like what I've got. I am not adverse to ISSF events as I currently shoot Free, Air, Rapid Fire, Centre Fire and Sport pistol events. These are not very popular events in the USA and I also get a great kick out of shooting Bullseye pistol three gun events. So I feel if you are addressing the majority of Americans you are not preaching to the choir by a long shot. Will your feelings be felt, known and understood---I seriously doubt it. There now my non ranting anti-rant is over--bye...."Doc"

Smoking357,

I have to question what your goal is with this post. Are you trying to start an argument or are you trying to generate interest in Olympic Trap?

I don't think it was necessary to insult American trap shooters as much as you have to promote Olympic trap.

If you find ATA Trap too easy, move back to the longer distances. If that is too easy, use a 20ga. If that is too easy, do what your username suggests and try "smokin' 'em" with that .357!

Ben

What I notice is that whenever I watch people shooting trap here in America, I see a smile on their face. What more could we want? -- Bill --

Freepistol wrote:Smoking357,

I have to question what your goal is with this post. Are you trying to start an argument or are you trying to generate interest in Olympic Trap?

There's a large part of the problem. It's not just for the Olympics.

I really enjoy the challenges of a bunker and would shoot it exclusively if I could.

The problem is that here in the US there are, what 40 or so clubs with a field? (Closest to me is 106 miles ... it's also a private club)

How many THOUSANDS of ATA field are there?
(Closest to me is 8 miles)

Latest I've heard is that for the cost, you can put in 4 ATA fields for the cost of a bunker ... gosh, just a new set of Mattarellis is up near $50K

jhmartin wrote:I really enjoy the challenges of a bunker and would shoot it exclusively if I could.

The problem is that here in the US there are, what 40 or so clubs with a field? (Closest to me is 106 miles ... it's also a private club)

How many THOUSANDS of ATA field are there?
(Closest to me is 8 miles)

Latest I've heard is that for the cost, you can put in 4 ATA fields for the cost of a bunker ... gosh, just a new set of Mattarellis is up near $50K

Same for me.
I am from Europe, US resident. After moving I wanted to play trap again, without knowing that in the US people play a different trap.
As soon as I understood the differences I was on a desperate research of international trap field with no success, thinking that I would have been able to find an international field.

I understand that international trap is more challenging, but you can enjoy ATA trap also. Easy to break a target, doesn't mean it is easy to win. If it is easy for you, it will be for other shooters also.

Having shot and watched both, I can say ATA trap is less entertaining and boring for spectators. At high level there are dozens of people in a shoot off. If you miss a target probably you will not win, if you miss two....no chances, you can stop shooting and go home. There is no tension or suspense in watching it.
In international trap a world champion can miss three targets in a row, and be behind of several targets, but he will have the chance to win the round until the end of it.
Yes, those fields are really expensive and you can find a lot of clubs because usually trap and skeet European clubs are really fancy high level club; so really expensive to be a member.
Here the clubs are more "friendly" approach.

smoking357, unless you are shooting 25 every round you shoot, ATA trap is not too easy. If I check the results of the Grand American in Sparta, IL, will your name be at the top of every list? Didn't think so.

At Mike Simpson's Cross Bridge Clays, we have all of the ATA, International and Olympic ranges. We shoot all of them here. Over Labor Day, several members of the USA National Team and the Florida State University Team were there shooting and attending one of Coach Simpson's clinics. If you think ATA is too easy, and want a truly humbling experience, come shoot with us.

Ok, I'll feed the troll here. "If ATA is that simple, why shoot Olympic?" I mean if you can blow a 25 in ATA, why take the downgrade in your ego to a mere 15 in Olympic? You should concentrate on ATA, then you can brag all day long about your 100 right?

I really don't care what smoking357 thinks about American Trap. This individual has the right to spew their thoughts and beliefs on the sport. Last time I checked we still had a form of free speech in the US of A. If smoking357 says ATA is too easy then that implies this person has shoot ATA at some point. If this person has not then this person is ignorant. Before you get all bent out of shape look up the definition of ignorant, it does not mean you are stupid. I am a professional and a business owner but I will admit beyond any doubt I am ignorant to many things. For example I could not begin to perform brain surgery or give a lecture on rocket science so I consider myself quite ignorant on these two topics. So having said that it would be interesting to know what experience with ATA this person really has and how easy it is for them and the proof would be for them to give us their ATA number. Anybody can look up anybody else on the ATA website and see their average. Last time I looked I didn't see a perfect 100% average. That is unless they only shoot one time and ran a 100 straight. Come on, impress us, do it again and really impress us. Better yet give us a link to what your average is, American and or Bunker style.

Breaking 25 straight in singles is one thing but can you run 100 straight? But if your only shooting 15s in bunker I can guess the answer to that.
Better yet when you can break 100s from the 27 yard line come back and let us know...
My last PITA ranking was AA27AA if you even know what that means.

smoking357 wrote:Apart from this site, there really is no decent internet forum devoted to the discussion of Olympic trap.

In my limited experience so far, there's little space or place to discuss most kinds of shooting competition.

IMO, it's down to the unfortunate human tribal tendency to either concentrate too much on one thing and not work on inclusion, or blindly support everything the tribe does regardless of damage it might do to individual interests.

What is needed is organisations that seek to find the balance. Who know when to promote common interests and when to join forces.

My observations are WRT to ISSF vs. Bullseye vs. ____. But I think the same can probably be made for the various shotgun disciplines. It certainly fits the attitude expressed by smoking357. Saying one discipline is easier/harder/less worthy/more worthy is pure ignorance and/or trolling and being a dick.

Issue one: "concentrate too much": The ATA should be actively involved in outreach to clubs that a primarily focused on international bunker and vice-versa. Ensuring that at a minimum more people are familiar with the similarities and differences and where the other discipline is practised or how the discipline could be practised at a club that doesn't necessarily support or specialise in that discipline.

Issue one: "support everything the tribe does": Unfortunately my first example is the hot button interpretation of the 2A. The international federations that support and promote shotgun sports in all countries can come together to support and promote the sports in other jurisdictions. Until you have people equating the sport with specific political ideologies and specific political parties. The USA federation IMO has a serious problem with their gold winning standard bearer being very pro-2A and very pro-Trump. All those two things do is limit possible promotion of the sport.

My other example is the safety courses here in Quebec for non-restricted long guns being given by the hunting federation. People for and against hunting can become involved in competitive clay shooting. But with the location, training material, and idle chatter and examples from the instructor focusing on the killing of animals, the sport suffers as people who are heavily against hunting will not take the step of blocking out what they disagree with to take the course and then concentrate on target shooting.

PS: Forgive my jumping into this forum. Shot skeet with a 12 gauge shotgun for the very first time (that's a double first as I had never fired a shotgun before). Of 7 clay pigeons I managed to hit the last 2. I'm now rabidly looking for more info on various disciplines and how I can try do it again locally.

There aren't enough bunker ranges in the US to worry about it and living now in Florida I've all but given up on it.
There is plenty of good FITASC to go around and lots of good looking ladies looking for instruction. Something that never happened in twenty plus years of bunker.

I know exactly what you mean. Often I help some cute young chicks in their early 60's shooting shotguns.

American trap is an easy discipline to shoot compared to Olympic (Bunker) trap. The word Olympic says it all. It is the ultimate trap discipline where the best of the best fight it out on a world stage to be an Olympic Champion.
Prior to getting to the Olympics, the competitors have to be the best in their own country, as only the top 3 are selected. Then they have too win an ‘Olympic Quota place’ to be able too have their country attend the Olympics. That doesn’t mean they will go, as each country has a different selection procedure to decide which shooter can go. Not an easy task.
The difference in the two disciplines, (one is easy to shoot and consistently break the clays and the other one is hard to break clays consistently ) means that the shooter can have a poor technique in American trap and still smash targets and put in a good score, but in OT (bunker) poor technique will mean lots of missed clays.
Both disciplines are fun and it’s all about pulling the trigger and seeing the clay break. But to shoot OT, consistently breaking clays and putting in a good score is not for the light hearted. Low scores soon sort out the shooters that need to improve their shooting style and not many American trap shooters have the acumen to want the change.
I am a former Olympic trap shooter and now an International Olympic coach. Since moving to America, I have been disappointed in the lack of interest in performance improvement in the trap disciplines but if it’s all about having fun pulling the trigger, then why make changes.

SlartyBartFast wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:54 am The USA federation IMO has a serious problem with their gold winning standard bearer being very pro-2A and very pro-Trump.

You do realize that the 2A means you can have a shotgun right??? Any gun owner that is anti 2A can either turn in thier guns or accept the title of hippocrite and should be expelled from any rational gun club.

I have my 150 in a row patch. the best I do in Bunker is 18/19. I love the game.
Its hard to find fields and thats fine. My ata ish club has a few continental machines
that seem to never turn off, and thats good. BUT back to his point about it being too easy?
Not too fast. Shoot it in 410. Thats humbling. Our 410 league is still waiting for its first clean round

robjob wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 10:21 pm You do realize that the 2A means you can have a shotgun right??? Any gun owner that is anti 2A can either turn in thier guns or accept the title of hippocrite and should be expelled from any rational gun club.

Firstly, the 2A is irrelevant to myself and all others who aren't in the USA.
And the reason I called it out, so long ago, as a problem is that political involvement is the reason USAShooting needed to be formed to be the body for competitive shooting recognized by the ISSF and IOC.

SlartyBartFast wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 10:40 pm

robjob wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 10:21 pm You do realize that the 2A means you can have a shotgun right??? Any gun owner that is anti 2A can either turn in thier guns or accept the title of hippocrite and should be expelled from any rational gun club.

Firstly, the 2A is irrelevant to myself and all others who aren't in the USA.
And the reason I called it out, so long ago, as a problem is that political involvement is the reason USAShooting needed to be formed to be the body for competitive shooting recognized by the ISSF and IOC.

Canadian... probably French... enough said...


Thank you, have a nice day...

My first time shooting International Trap I managed to squeek out an 8/25 from my wheelchair. I'll be back.

If anyone is in or near St. Louis, I'd be happy to shoot it at St. Louis Trap and Skeet Club.