TargetTalk

I'm working with others on a new target range for both pistol and rifle in Northern IL. We were thinking of offering a limited number of Hammerli 120, 208 and 212, the Pfuff free pistol, and perhaps SAKO TriAce for sale. We also were considering the Walther GSP (used but excellent condition). In Germany, the GSP seems to be the preferred gun above the 212 and 208, and AW93 due to the combination of accuracy and relative insensitivity to the specific ammunition.

What do readers of these posts feel about the GSP for sale here? Attractive, not interested, no use, ideal ? Price would be in the $1000 range, most likely. Perhaps less. Possibly a bit over $1200, mostly dependent on what happens with shipping costs for these guns from Germany.

If you can get late-model GSPs in good shape and sell them for $1K, you'll make money. 208Ss will command even more.

To clarify, the 208S will not be available due to import restrictions. Only the 208 and 212 with factory safety. The European production 208S usually does not have a factory safety that would permit import.

Pfuff?

Pilkguns has only this to say in the "Free Pistol" section:

There are of course other models I haven't mentioned, but I feel the likelihood of coming across a Luna, Pfuff or Green (or anything else exotic or rare) to be fairly low.

There is only a little more information on the web that I could find. They look interesting - how do they perform? What will you be selling them for, if you don't mind my asking.

Roger

The supply of these guns is a bit irregular. Sometimes none, sometimes 4 at a time available. But at least there is a non-steady source of supply. The general design was for use by individuals with smallish to medium sized hands (Mr Pfuff, himself in particular). They generally use heavy barrels without a taper, sometimes have an added front weight bar and sometimes not, and all have a very fine trigger design. One of the unique features is that the trigger design permits dry firing without damage to the firing pin. General performance of the gun in European competition has been comparable to the Hammerli 160, but the latest shipment is in transit, and has not been tested yet. They do not appear to have the problem of dirt buildup that has limited popularity of the Steyr. The barrel is in a relatively low position (but not as low as the Steyr), with close mounted sights. My general view is of similar quality to the Hammerli 150-160, but more solidly made, more complicated and perhaps better trigger design, but basically similar but no barrel taper. They are not designed to take a front muzzle brake, but in theory one could be added.

Depending on availability and range user interest, the Steyr and SAKO free pistols might also be added to the available list. The Steyr has not been a problem to obtain, at least without the weight bar. The SAKO, highly variable in availability. Sometimes none, sometimes 3 or 4 to choose from.

As to cost, have not decided as yet, pending more info on just how regular the supply will be, and the shipping cost for future items (a problem at this moment with DHL from Europe). My off hand guess at this time, $1000-1500. A little higher if DHL remains out of the transport business.

Let me know if you get in a Pfuff. I'd be interested in one. I'd consider a Steyr as well, just to fiddle with. Thanks.

The timing of all of this is about 6-10 months in the future, as that is when we expect to have the range completed, with a bit of luck. Most likely we will try and use the guns to advertise the range, but be willing to sell them to non-range users as well, at the same price.

The Steyr has the advantage of virtually no muzzle rise WHILE the bullet is travelling down the barrel (something no other free pistol design avoids), but uses high mounted sights. Also, the trigger "shoe" or finger pad has an amazing range of adjustment advailable.

The main problem is the sensitivity to dirty, and it is very very difficult to clean and reassemble. It does include a muzzle brake that was part of the design, which helps if one is not using very low velocity "free pistol" ammunition like the old RWS FP50.

I enjoy Free Pistol. Rapid Fire Pistol and Air Pistol.

I have three places that I stay; none have International Pistol competition available.

So... where is the range you are contemplating?

My locations are:

South Florida
Central Florida
Western North Carolina

Are you anyplace close-by?

The range will be in NE Illinois, unfortunately not particularly near the locations mentioned.

It is hard to say on such a matter. Timing is a big issue, but it seems that you may be able to get good money out of this. I agree that also going to the right place will be key. Doesn't have to be in northeastern Illinois? I would begin by searching for Fake Rocks. They make great targets when you setting up a range.

Unfortunately not a lot of choice on location due to a complex array of factors. The main one is police department contracts for use of the range to meet the initial expenses.

While opening of the range will take a while, the guns are being placed on sale on a trial basis. A 212 and 208 to start, with a Steyr FP, Pfuff FP, and GSPs to follow next year. In accord with an intergalactic peace treaty on weapons sales, these are being sold by 1st Class Firearms (www.1stclassfirearms.com). Prices are negotiable through them.

Once you are up and running, I hope you have some ISSF-type matches. Depending on where in NE Illinois you are, I'd totally drive down to compete.