TargetTalk

Summary: I'll never buy another one. I should note that I do not use this gun casually, more like 3 times a week for practice and competitions.

The conversion has several different problems:
1. The hold open insert (the hard steel fitting that is inserted into a cut in the alloy slide) is held in place by two nearly microscopic screws. Over time these break. Normally, it would be possible to replace the screws, but they are held in by Loc-Tite. When a screw breaks, half of it is stuck in the insert and is impossible to remove. Advantage Arms insists in having the slide returned to them, and will not sell the inserts (they do sell the screws).

The problem has been recurrent and is really based on faulty engineering in my opinion. The alloy of the slide is not hard enough to prevent the insert from working to and frow. Hence, the recurrent breaking of screws.

As the conversion unit was made up by Bob Marvel Custom, I've attempted to return it to him. But, as many of you know who have dealt with Bob, he is virtually impossible to communicate with (I've tried a letter, numerous e-mails, phone messages and postings on his web site, he's never returned my contacts since June of 2011, and I'm simply giving up. Very unprofessional conduct in my opinion.)

Because the 1911 conversion unit slide is made of alloy, the weight and balance is not ideal. I prefer a gun that is a bit muzzle heavy. and one would need to add a weight to the frame dust cover to give the gun the right balance.

Overall, given my experience with Bob Marvel, I cannot recommend dealing with him. He is suposedly an excellent gunsmith, but one might consider his failure to support his product to be someting of a business fault. Especially when one considers the fact that the unit I bought was on one of his custom 1911 frames... with a price tag of $2300 for the whole rig, I would have expected service that one could call civil.

John C

Just so people on this board don't get confused. There are at least two, maybe more companies that manufacture .22 conversion units that have the name Marvel attached to them. Advantage Arms is not to be confused with Marvel Precision, a different company.

http://www.advantagearms.com/



http://www.marvelprecision.com/

Isabel is correct, and thank her for making the distinction. I am referring only to the 1911 .22 conversion made by Advantage Arms and to my experience with it and Bob Marvel custom.

I have had no experience with the Marvel Precision unit and make no comment about it.

Thanks, John C

I have three AA units. One actually being Bob Marvels #10 unit. I did have one stop insert break. This was when they still sent the parts. I got a new insert and loctited it in, screws and insert. No problem since with any of them. Feeding in my AA has not failed. And they are very accurate.

I started with a Marvel Precision unit. Very accurate. Feeding was iffy even with the best modified Metalform mag. The first poly mags (and kimber trials) were no help. And I cannot willingly tolerate the no hold open. Yeah yeah deal with it. I believe it is like a disruption of an otherwise good shot plan, and a safety issue if you do fail to open the slide.

Bob M is hard to contact. Don't know why. But when I do reach Bob on the phone, he is very helpful and will talk a long time.

I am still wanting to hear report on the new Marvel Precision hold open units.

Dear JackH:
How on Earth did you get the holdopen insert to stay in, I've been through several, even used the red Loc-Tite. After a while the lubricant would remove the loctite and the next thing I knew one of those tiny screws broke....

How do you like the weight balance of the conversions?

On the old Bullseye list, I read a lot about the problems with the Marvel Precision magazines and decided to stay away. Do those problems persist?

How did you get the insert to stay in?

Concerning Bob, After 4 months of writing, e-mails, leaving phone messages, and posting questions on his web site contact, I've had it.

I have two of the Marvel units (current Unit#1 in their catalog) and they have both functioned flawlessly with Metalform, Kimber (plastic) and Ciener magazines with Wolf MT, SKJagdPM and AguillaSE SV ammo.

Being an old bullseye pistol shooter I naturally count to five (that's my nemesis in action pistol shoots) therefore the lack of slide lock back has not bothered me.

I have an AA kit for a G-17 and that steel insert to provide slide lock does not stand up to constant use. I do not believe it is possible to get reliable long lasting slide lock back without a steel slide as on the Tactical Solutions unit which is not capable of bullseye level acuracy.

For added weight I first used one of the Marvel steel compensators on the front of the barrel - found the comp was a pain in the neck to clean and purchased a weight which fits on the barrel (a short bloop tube) made by Roddy Toyota from the bulleye-l list.

I have heard that one of the ways to have feeding problems with the Marvel is setting the trigger too light. Dave Salyer told me that ideally, the trigger should be set no lighter than 2.75 lbs, so if you are having trouble with your Marvel, you should try that first.

John Ciccone wrote:Dear JackH:
How on Earth did you get the holdopen insert to stay in, I've been through several, even used the red Loc-Tite. After a while the lubricant would remove the loctite and the next thing I knew one of those tiny screws broke....

How do you like the weight balance of the conversions?

On the old Bullseye list, I read a lot about the problems with the Marvel Precision magazines and decided to stay away. Do those problems persist?

How did you get the insert to stay in?

Concerning Bob, After 4 months of writing, e-mails, leaving phone messages, and posting questions on his web site contact, I've had it.

Only one (of three) inserts has failed. One end screw hole broke off and was inside the dust cover. It broke during a long Ransom session. The screws were gone and the large remainder part of the insert was still functioning. Was still working so good I didn't discover until I got home.. Generous red loctited a new insert in place. No problem since. I did tighten the first screw and then dress the tiny allen wrench down to new shank. The allen gets a best purchase in the screw head that way allowing a bit more torque. If I have another break, I have 2-3 more inserts. These are the early design. I know AA has at least one more insert design. I have fire the new insert a lot, since.....

I have a Les Baer. Does anyone know if the Advatage Arms 1911 will fit. I hope so just arrive today

Thanks

I have 3 Les Baer 1911s built up by Roddy. They all take AA and MP units just fine.

I have built 6 guns with precision Marvel Conversions....accurate and reliable.

The poly mags were a disaster over time.

I have found some alloy magazine that seem to work better, however you do need to pull the side back all the way and release it , not drop the slide stop to close the slide.

I can supply them at $38.00 plus shipping, appear to be made by a German manufacturer.

I to own two Marvel precision 22 conversions. One with iron sights, the other one with a rail in order to hold my Ultra Dot. Bot are great units and I have had absolutely no problems with them what so ever. Gunsmiths that get so busy that they simply cannot respond to emails or phone calls from customers that trusted them in the first place to buy their products really irk me.

Unfortunately most of the really good gunsmiths get this way for whatever reason. But they all need to know that when the calls stop coming, they will be the ones eating beans and the smiths with good customer service will still be making money

Just my opionion nothing else. Just what I have seen after being involved in the shooting sport for a few years.

Bob Marvel has not been involved with either 'Advantage Arms' or 'Marvel Precision' for many years, as I understand.

I met Mr Marvel and took classes from him in 2011. Bob Marvel has a new .22 conversion which only started shipping in 2012. From what I saw Bob has a back log of orders both conversions and custom guns. He seems to spend a lot of time not only answering questions from customers but even more time, simply helping people and other gunsmiths who call wanting advise.

The new Bob Marvel conversion, from Bob Marvel is much better. I got my name on the waiting list.

Not knowing anything about Advantage arms or Marvel Precision (not Bob Marvel just his name) myself I really have no ideas on how to help.

The AA conversion unit customized by Bob Marvel is an adapration of his earlier Marvel unit which is now marketed by Marvel Precision. The all are made with aluminum alloy slides and the insert in the AA kit has always been a source of problem. As an old bullseye shooter I instinctiverly count to five and have not had the need for the lockback feature of the AA unit. The gilt edge accuracy of the Marvel Precision Unit #1 (mine are older units which precede Marvel Precision) function flawlessly with SV ammo particularly WolfMT and SKJagd using either Metalform, Kimber or Ciener magazines. I increased the front weight by adding a steel compensator to the front end which is available from Marvel Precision. i did purchase an AA unit for my Glock-17 and the steel insert did not last long - I learned to cout to ten instead of five.

Post script about the AA stop insert. I had a second fail. I know of at least three AA insert designs. AA did replace the whole first design slide with a new slide wearing the flat plate type stop insert.

I have so far had 2 early Marvel Precision units, 3 Advantage Arms , and now a Marvel Precision steel lockback. All are accurate. No doubt about that. And I am not 100% happy with any of them. If that new insert works (I am not holding my breath), I would go with the AA with Bob Marvel barrels.

Why can't they make a 22 slide that stops open without issues. 45 slides do OK and do not mushroom like my steel MP slide stop notch.

bob_G wrote:Bob Marvel has not been involved with either 'Advantage Arms' or 'Marvel Precision' for many years, as I understand.

I met Mr Marvel and took classes from him in 2011. Bob Marvel has a new .22 conversion which only started shipping in 2012. From what I saw Bob has a back log of orders both conversions and custom guns. He seems to spend a lot of time not only answering questions from customers but even more time, simply helping people and other gunsmiths who call wanting advise.

The new Bob Marvel conversion, from Bob Marvel is much better. I got my name on the waiting list.

Not knowing anything about Advantage arms or Marvel Precision (not Bob Marvel just his name) myself I really have no ideas on how to help.

Bob Marvel's .22 conversion seems to be made of "unobtainium". I was put on a waiting list two years ago. I have made several calls and got a lot of unfulfilled promises.

My story is that i won a Springfield milspec at the midwinter this February, not knowing what to do with it, went to Midway and purchased a Marvel precision unit one and an extra magazine for $480.

Sent it to my gunsmith Dave Salyer.

Dave set it up and worked the Springer to a 2.25# trigger pull.

I am in the process of getting used to the pistol.
the Marvel is very accurate, I need to get used to the light trigger on a 1911 platform.(have only shot two matches with it)
Dry firing is in order at this time.(M41 is the backup)

Clarence

C. Perkins wrote:My story is that i won a Springfield milspec at the midwinter this February, not knowing what to do with it, went to Midway and purchased a Marvel precision unit one and an extra magazine for $480.

Sent it to my gunsmith Dave Salyer.

Dave set it up and worked the Springer to a 2.25# trigger pull.

I am in the process of getting used to the pistol.
the Marvel is very accurate, I need to get used to the light trigger on a 1911 platform.(have only shot two matches with it)
Dry firing is in order at this time.(M41 is the backup)

Clarence

Clarance, I have set my Marvel triggers at 2.75. My logic is that 2.5 is legal in Center fire and one of these days I will have a dedicated CF gun (a 1911 9mm) I hope this will make all three stages very similar for me.
Dry firing is always in order. :-) K

So what's the recommendation for a match grade conversion unit that's currently available. I'm less concerned w/ the slide locking back, more so its accuracy and reliability.

Is anyone else tuning these, besides Bob Marvel?

dlb,
I bought a Marvel Precision Unit 1 about 7 years ago, I shot it for 4 years, over 10K rounds when the extractor broke through the barrel cutout.
Marvel Precision replaced the entire unit except the scopemount with the new wider extractor unit for Free.
I've shot the replaced unit for now for 2 years.

I bought a 2nd Unit 1 from Marvel Precision to have as a back-up. That unit has a 5 shot, 50 yd test target of .442"
Both units are on dedicated frames.

I had to tweak the steel mags to get one unit functioning reliabily and used Advantage Arms plastic mags in the other frame. I also had to use an EGW mag release that holds the mags .040" higher in one of the frames.
These are both Non-hold open at last shot units. I'm use to having to count rounds.
The wider extractor solved the barrel cracking problem. The slides are aluminum and as such I think this limits longevity. I would be happy if I get 25 K rounds through the units. I found Leopold PRW steel rings with an UltraDot 30mm add the right amount of weight for me. The gun set-up this way is very close to my wadgun.
Based on my experience I can highly recommend the standard Marvel Precision Unit 1.
Art